What would Christ do?
1 Like
Jesus was very harsh with hypocrites throughout the Gospels. Calling them out, kicking them out, etc… I doubt he would be very happy with someone talking out both sides of her mouth about him. His redemption is available to all, but not all accept it.
5 Likes
I’ve never understood why American Christian theology is so focussed on anger, judgement and hatred of others.
The reading of the Gospels I was taught was one of loving others. Jesus was quite big on that, as I remember it. I’m reminded of the Sermon on the Mount, the parable of the prodigal son, the parable of the vineyard, “let he who is without sin”, etc.
I’m pretty sure Jesus would not be boycotting Whoopie Goldberg. I don’t think he was really into cancel culture.
I’m also pretty sure the cleansing of the temple is not a counterargument to this.
I think Jesus would be pretty keen to meet Whoopie and talk to her.
But then I’m not a Christian, because my experience of Christianity is that people use it to justify hate.
6 Likes
No, but he also didn’t seem to be too keen of dishonesty, lies, false witness. I think @ryan1 point was he would not enjoy this performer because the spoken word isn’t a truth felt in the heart but a script remember and recited for money. And that doesn’t appeal to him.
Proverbs 19:9 – A false witness shall be punished, and a liar shall be caught. Proverbs 21:6 & 8 – A fortune made by people who tell lies amounts to nothing and leads to death. …
2 Likes
Its not said that Jesus doesn’t love Whoopie. It just seems hypocritical in somes eyes to have her as a speaker. Im playing devil’s advocate of course. I rarely concern myself with celebrities and what they have to say about such personal topics.
1 Like
It’s not about the performance. It’s about the words. I thought he’d enjoy those.
Yeah, I always think the argument is lost if you have to resort to the Old Testament. Or the letters of St Paul.
1 Like
For ryan, it must be an important aspect.
I will not argue what Jesus would or would not appriciate or participate in. I actually like the Old Testament. My point is ryan is free to feel this controversial speaker is something he would not enjoy (through her own fault because she was so public with her personal feelings and passes judgement creating ryans distaste for her religious views). See what I did there, Views, hahaha, lighten this post up yall. Everyone is free to fell how they feel. Unless you were around when a religion was created, its all based in faith anyway, not fact.
2 Likes
Who was doing any of that on this thread?
I 100% agree.
I don’t recall anyone mentioning hating her in this (or any other) thread. @ryan1 just stated that he would prefer to hear the story of the birth of his Savior from someone who believes that story.
And I truly am sorry that you’ve experienced hate in the name of Christianity. That’s not in the least bit Biblical. The Bible calls us to love…people. It calls us to separate the sin from the sinner…hating one and loving the other.
There was no call to boycott, just a desire to choose one of the other narrators.
Matthew 7:21 - 23 (from the Sermon on the Mount)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
6 Likes
From my experience American Christianity is different than European Christianity. I didn’t really figure this out until I was an adult and had some awesome conversations with a German Lutheran and I realized how my family’s thinking was so divergent than the general American populist. I am first generation American and was raised in European traditions. I don’t participate in church here at all anymore since my grandparent’s generation have left and no longer have influence.
I’m sure I’ll have to delete this post too as y’all prepare to jump all over me for daring to share anything different. It’s so very disappointing.
4 Likes
I for one will not. Every single person here is free to feel exactly how they feel. I dont believe in shaming another person at all. I believe in understanding, respect and humanity.
4 Likes
Thank you
1 Like
Not only do I feel that way but I also believe that listening to others that do not share your exact beliefs/ opinions/ experiences, then examining them, trying to understand them, you become a more enlightened person over all.
6 Likes
truth
1 Like
I seriously doubt that you would enjoy a pro-LGBTQ poem recited by Vladimir Putin (a country’s leader who has made it central to his policy to discriminate against LGBTQ people) in order to make money or gain “bonus points” somewhere. People don’t like hypocrites. It doesn’t matter their religion (or lack thereof).
The Old Testament and the New Testament are intricately tied together. Without the Old Testament the New means nothing.
4 Likes
If Putin read out a pro-gay poem, I think that would be a good thing. Even if he didn’t believe a word of it. The words would be in his head, swimming around, being thought about.
But the argument fails because gay people don’t hold themselves out as being morally superior. I expect more from Christians than I do from gay people.
The Old Testament is a bunch of myth and contradictory nonsense, cobbled together by a committee and used as a means to attack people supposed-Christians don’t like. It’s been used to justify all manner of evil throughout history. This is an unpopular view round here. Which is awkward, because it also happens to be true.
A Christ-like Christian wouldn’t boycott Whoopie Goldberg. They’d be greatly saddened by her apparent hypocrisy and they would ask themselves where it comes from. Why does Whoopie feel as she does, and what can I do about it. They would gladly support her role as the Narrator in the CP because they would hope that she would see their love and support and be moved by it. As she reads out the script three times a day for three days maybe, swept up by the atmosphere of CP, it might speak to her as she speaks its words.
But, no. American Christian theology demands that she be shunned. CP is all about the show, it’s all about the viewer. Heaven forbid anyone should be challenged or should step outside their comfort zone.
Which, of course, is what I do. I walk right into the middle of that lions’ den and I listen to the words and I listen to the music and I try to forget about all the evil perpetrated by Christians throughout history.
A job they continue to this day. How bizarre that the Christian churches in America have aligned themselves with Trump. A man whose core philosophy is the exclusion of foreigners. You could not find a man whose credo is more antithetical to the message of the Gospels.
Meanwhile, preachers engorge themselves with vast personal wealth until their shameful private lives and hypocrisy are publicly revealed.
But yeah, UK Christianity and US Christianity are very different. Isn’t that why the US was established in the first place? Christianity is all but dead in the UK. I know very few people who call themselves Christian because there are very few.
The reverse seems to be true in the US, and on this website. It’s very noticeable. And a little threatening.
I still like visiting cathedrals and hearing hymns and carols. Sometimes they even make me feel a little spiritual. But then I remember the sins of the Christian churches and I snap out of it.
John 11:35 indeed.
5 Likes
This is a good point but I also think there is a bigger picture here. What ryan feels he will not enjoy because of his beliefs and perspective is his truth. That is right and true for him. There shouldn’t be a debate on this. If the performance was based in something other than religion, maybe he would feel differently. Maybe not. But its his to feel. The hypocrisy for him is what would make this particular performance unenjoyable. Religion is such a personal and somewhat controversial topic. I dont think ryan was trying to bring his beliefs to the forefront, just state that he found irony in the speaker selection and would not want to see it.
1 Like
This is all speculative of course,
You should just expect more from people. The box you check by societal standards should make no difference. There are gay Christians you should know.
I find this true for many religions.
Sadly, this has been, but there are other atrocities that have been committed for reasons other than religion. Misguided, poor intentioned people try to find a rhyme to their reason. In history, religion was so much more ingrained in society and everyday life, IMO, than it is today. There for being a much more usable tool to manipulate the masses.
No one is calling for a boycott. Ryan was just stating how this is something he wouldn’t want to see. Respect is universal. I bet hes a bit embarrassed at how his statement has caused so much controversy here, but lets respect his right to feel the way he does. He did not advocate for anyone to join him, nor did he really get into this debate. Just stated his opinion and feelings.
Purely speculation here, but this is doubtful. And I fall under the camp that you financially support what you believe in. Not that there is an extra cost to attend, but hopefully you get my jist. Shes a good speaker. Thats why she got the job, very animated.
I think you are inferring alot of personal feeling into a few statements that have not been entirely expressed. Maybe there is a difference between American theology and European. But, be careful to be bigoted against someone.
Its actually doesnt seem that you do.
I can see why you would want to turn this political; IT IS NOT.
Freedom. Period. We are still working on it. Please forgive us. We’re new to the club.
Everyone sins. Does it mean you should throw your hands up and go all anarchist? No, I don’t believe so.
1 Like
I think you are in the minority. I think my gay friends would be outraged.
You cannot hold Christians to the teachings of the New Testament without also accepting the Old Testament. Once again, the New Testament and its teachings mean nothing without the history and teachings of the Old Testament.
Nobody is suggesting either of these things.
This is not a political discussion. It wasn’t one, it’s not going to be one. Christians should align themselves with Jesus, not a political party.
“Jesus wept.” This is completely out of context. Context matters.
2 Likes