DVC documents talk about using points for themselves, guests and lessees. It specifies rules on renting - must have a contract etc.
Plus in the meetings they specifically said that members can rent their points.
So yes, DVC state renting is allowed.
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I was just curious about what the deed states. I have no idea where mine is. But I do know that it says no commercial renting. So to your point, they just have to define and identify that and crack down on it. Lol. To your point, not an easy feat!
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They are all brokerages. They are facilitating the rentals, but the owners of the points are doing the actual renting. It’s those folks that we’d like to see shut down.
Would that impact the brokers? Probably.
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No. This is all just talk at the moment, and I would think you have a contract by the rental agreement. It would likely be something like “after XXX date”
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Might this be for confidentiality purposes? IDK, just a thought.
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I wonder if they will be able to deny a transfer of a reservation if they can prove the original reservation was made and then marketed commercially. I guess they will have to prove it was made with that intent. Which is hard to do.
I wonder if they will even announce their tactics or if we’ll just have to watch it play out after Disney has taken some specific action …
And truely, I hope that is what Disney is targeting.
I would think you would be fine. Once the owner puts the reservation in your name, you’re good. You get confirmation very quickly.
So people that purchase resale??
A lot of people put real estate and investments into LLC for many reasons. A lot of those are financial and estate planning but confidentiality is definitely another.
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But I think the registry shows who’s behind the LLC? That was the point of the posts - people traced the trustees of the LLC and found it was the broker company - I think.
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It’s fairly easy to find out the “owner” for most LLCs. But not always.
I’m not sure what the registry shows. I was just pointing out LLC are used for many reasons. If they are doing it for anonymity, it’s just on the surface level.
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I was just looking through the different rental agencies. Honestly because I am making a reservation that my family may not end up using, during a very high season, and if I can’t use it I wanted to know how much I could rent it for (these are expiring points). The patterns of commercial renting are pretty clear, just from a first glance!
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Oh I see
Any rental could be seen as commercial, it depends what DVC decide they can realistically define it as.
By realistically I mean what they can use to go after the big offenders.
It’s easy to see proof of commercial renting, but not so easy for DVC to identify the actual owners behind it on Facebook or a brokers site.
So they have to use the info on the member reservation site. Which ones are rentals? And what algorithms do they use to try and spot a pattern?
Since DVC said “it’s fine to rent out your points if you can’t use them” then where is the line?
And of course they can’t throw lots of money at it, it’ll have to come from existing budgets.
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We had one at Easter last year that fit that bill. I was going to try to rent it through David’s. One of their people came back to me suggesting I check that the points are actually expiring, since it was a great reservation but they couldn’t pay premium for it since it was only a couple months out. I did (yeah I know I should have first) and it was half and half so I canceled and rented just the short dated points.
Long story long, I’d be interested what kind of rate you saw from others out of curiosity since David’s is definitely non premium. It’s only academic since I really appreciate dealing with them, and will do again the next time my kids’ rotten activity schedules mess with my holidays. I really hope their business model isn’t affected too badly.
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Their business model of brokering people like you who need to rent and people who don’t own is a great business model. But they have branched out into the speculative rental business where they are booking premium dates and charging high dollars for them before they even have an interested renter. That business needs to be torpedoed!
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For sure if they have! I didn’t have that impression, but I also haven’t paid any attention to dedicated reservation rentals other than trying to rent my own. I always liked that they didn’t seem to do that - unlike the others where it was really obvious. It’s a shame to have changed.
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I am in a similar situation - I am considering booking a four to five day stay over New Years at BCV - if my family goes to WDW. If they decide to just go to Universal, I will reduce that to two nights - to use the 50 expiring points and bank the 50 that aren’t yet expiring.
DVC rental store lets you suggest your price per point - they let you go up to $20 per point. That would be $500 for a BCV on New Years Eve, which is about half rack rate (though I am sure DVC rental store will get their cut too). DVC Shop - a broker that drives me crazy because they constantly snatch up all of the AKL value rooms, let’s you name your price. I could probably get a nice price for a NYE reservation if I don’t use it, I just couldn’t go with them because I dislike their practices so much.
I have to make some decisions really soon - I have the potential for a solo trip first week of December, or first week of February. Or my family may use those points in December. This is where the 11 month booking window, at a resort like BCV really forces you to make decision. Renting will be my back up - with a goal of breaking even instead of making a big profit.
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David’s main business model is still the old traditional way.
It’s DVC Rental Store and others who have moved mostly towards confirmed reservations. They encourage members to do it that way, pay them the same and take an extra $10 per point.
As far as I see it, David’s treat members much better and have the more honest approach.
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I was wondering how their max payout could be $20 a point, but the room cost being so much higher.
I also noticed on a recent DVC fan podcast, Paul was extremely careful about what he said about commercial renting.
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This is my impression too. You don’t see a ton of those suspicious 1 nighters. Not to say the points owner isn’t dipping their toe in the dedicated market. But that owner wouldn’t traditionally be considered “commercial” IMO. Maybe doing it to make money. The definition of what constitutes commercial will be key here. I do think Disney will have to tread carefully and make sure they don’t accidentally shut down a reservation that wasn’t a commercial one.
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For those who don’t think DVC can effectively identify commercial renter operations without overly impacting legit owners, remember they have an extensive database of owners and the insights into their habits already. Add to that the ease of finding DVC rental websites and consider that the new computer “fad” is machine learning/AI. (Not everything AI is LMM.) Said DVC db plus internet scraps of anything related to “DVC points rental” should be enough to train a machine learning model to be able to identify the most egregious offenders.) Once a party is identified, a “cease and desist” letter is fired off by DVC lawyers, a subset of some of the best legal pit bulls around. Disney has a vested interest in curtailing “commercial” rental operations; it eats into their own bottom line of renting at rack rate what we owners don’t use.
Putting on my Machiavellian hat for a moment, lets assume Disney will be creating more trusts/use plans targeted to aggregating older contracts/resort points. If they do implement an effective way to restrict commercial renters, those contracts will likely go on the market once its obvious Disney is serious. A glut on the market will make it easier to amass a critical amount of contracts to feed said aggregating trust use plans, possibly cheaper than would otherwise be possible, especially if there was a specific budget set up for this in advance.
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I don’t think they can put points into a trust of a resort where points have already been sold. At the very least I think it has to be complete units - which makes it impossible except at Riviera and Poly, plus Aulani. (Units are not the same as rooms, they can be a single GV but also a group of rooms).
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