Touring Plans Questionable Suggestions

Hi, I’ve created this plan for EPCOT and the results make me question the recommendations it produces. At 10:30am I will have used my first LL for the day, it then suggests I book Spaceship Earth. Why would anyone book Spaceship Earth as a LL when you still need to get Test Track?

Based on the Touring Plans website, for the day I’ve made this plan it shows if I were to book Test Track at 10:30am the return time would be around 1pm. Why wouldn’t that be the suggestion? The options selected for the plan are to reduce wait times, as I thought maybe the reduce walking option may be influencing the recommendations but even with that updated it remains the same.

It makes me question the integrity of the plan when it suggests steps that fly in the face of advice you get from other sources on YouTube and common sense.

Am I missing something?

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I know they are working on improving the LL recommendations…so it could be something that will get better once they make those changes.

But it can also be that sometimes recommendations which are correct are not necessarily intuitive. It could be that the amount of time saved by getting a LL for Test Track ends up being less overall time saved because doing it the way it is recommending perhaps can get you more LLs overall, cumulatively more time. Not sure if that is the case here or not.

I noticed your plan has the day ending at 3:30…so you might extend the time when you are done with your day to see if it alters your recommendations.

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Without checking Thrill Data my guess is that by the time you can book your second LL the return time for TT will be too late.

Interesting though hat TP shows a likely return time of 1:30 - not sure I believe that. Could be that page hasn’t been updated yet.

I did notice the plan has you using the SE Ll more than 15 minutes after the expiration time. I thought you only had 15 minutes grace?

Did you re-optimise several times? Usually doing so 3-4 times can settle things down and be more consistent.

The grace period is 119 minutes - not announced by Disney but tested by liners.

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I just did Epcot the other day. Had a 9am for FEA and tapped at 9 and immediately booked a 2:20 for TT. I had been monitoring both TT and FEA for months and if you get a 9ish time for one you can get a mid-afternoon of the other, at least during moderate crowds.


Sorry what do you mean by grave period? Surely it’s not 119 minutes.

You book your LL for an hour window, but you’ll still get a green Mickey 5 mins before and up to 119 mins after that window.

Yeah I’ve optimised approx. 10 times.

Keep in mind that the LL return time predictions & suggestions have been a work in progress for the TP software. Here is Len’s latest update:

As stated, serious Liners have been developing their own plan by using 's return time heat maps and the G+ advanced strategies found in the LaCava (members only) category of these discussion forums.


I found the TP plans to be pretty useless.

In addition to grace period (I was there last week and can confirm 119 minutes past the initial hour window, came pretty close to it a couple times!), it doesn’t account for the drops at EP, HS, and AK. The drops are critical for getting on most of the headliners.

We can definitely update the grace period pretty easily. Still working on the predictions.

When I make plans, I don’t put that I’m using G+. I put in attractions that I want to do and then optimize. This lets me know what order I should obtain LLs. When I’m in the park, I’ll add actual the LL time to my plan in the app and then optimize in real time. I find that this works much better


And Epcot is the one park that I find it is hardest to make a TP because there is so much to do in WS. If you are on property and willing to be in line for early entry 45 minutes before EE starts, from IG you can easily do Remy, walk with purpose to FEA and then ride Soarin by 9:30 if EE starts at 8:30. After that, we can hit Spaceship Earth with less than 10 minute wait. All without using G+. My kids are old enough that we can do TT as single riders saving tons of time.

Thanks Jennifer. I’ve been to Disney World twice with just me and my partner (2011 and 2015) where I could confidently say I’d be up early and walking super quick to get everything done without waiting in lines. This time I’m taking my parents, and sisters family. There are 8 of us ranging from 3 years old to 65. The trick for me is trying to make a plan that minimises walking and waiting time while not rushing people around. It’s their first time after all and I want them to enjoy it and take it in. We are there for 10 days in September so my logic is a few visits to each park at the right time (maybe with the help of LL) will do it.

The challenge with your suggestion of not selecting G+ is that an optimised plan may tell you to go to a ride next, but if you applied that to a LL, they may all be gone. I’m seeing that some LL pretty much go in the morning or at least by midday.

Which again is yet another level of complexity because I dont want to keep my family in the parks all day just to get the most out of a G+. They wouldn’t be able to handle the heat or have the energy. I’m thinking we’d probably go to EPCOT around 9am and leave at 3 or 4pm. Therefore I was using the Touring Plan generator to work out if it was even worth buying G+. If I’m going to use it once for say FEA, and then not be able to get anything worthwhile (that you couldn’t almost walk onto or with a few minute wait) for the rest of the day (all return time for beyond 4pm).

But thats where the plans let themselves down. It recommends things like booking Spaceship Earth at 10am when their website shows, for that day, that a LL return widow for Test Track would still be available for after lunch (so within the window of time I have available in the park aka before 4pm).

So much to consider. But thank you for the suggestion!

We took a family of first timers last week and did not do full days in the parks. Mostly late starts.

Basic strategy was to line up headliner/hard-to-gets with the first pick of the day and drops (EP, AK, HS), and fill in the rest with rides with immediate availability and return times. With 2 days at each park, we had no trouble hitting everything at least once.

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As far is LL booking order and what will selling out first, here’s the order to book:
Remy>TT>Frozen>Soarin>Mission Space>Living with the Land>Seas with Nemo

So at 7AM book Remy. Hopefully, you’ll get an early time. Then after using Remy or 2 hrs after park opens, book TT, etc.

If you enter the park at 9:00, check the wait time for Frozen. If it’s 30 minutes or less head there first . Or go right to Soarin and Living with the Land, then Spaceship Earth for minimal waits.


Considering you are going in September, when crowds are typically at their lowest, I would consider just forgoing G+ altogether. We got G+ for only two of our 8 days in early December, and we really didn’t NEED it for those two days either. Can it help? Sure. But the complexity of working with a system that effectively doesn’t let you plan very well might not be worth the stress it brings.


I was hoping not to book Remy as a LL, the data for 6 September shows a reduced wait time if I hit that first, maybe 10 - 15 mins wait time at 9:30 - 10am. If thats the case, FEA will be my first choice and risk Remy. If we miss Remy that day (as the wait will be high by the time we come to leave), we are staying at Riviera so can hope on the skyliner another day and hit Remy early to get it done.

Thanks Ryan. I’ve debated the same thing many times. Then after months of looking at options one day I said screw it, I’ll budget for G+ every day, at every park with some ILL as well. At least that way I can have ‘some’ control of the day and at least thats better than rushing my family around and getting them stressed out. Touring Plans has helped me realise that maybe thats overkill, for example the first day of MK and HS probably doesnt need Genie+ considering there are so many shows and other activities that need to be done at some point so if I can tick off most of them in a day, the next time I go back to that park, with the help of some stacking, I should be able to get everything done. But you are right, even with the G+, it comes with its own set of complexities and stress.

For what’s it worth, we found more value in paying for ILLS than for G+…but everyone is different!

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