Agree. Minimum wage should be for ALL workers.
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I hate those kiosks.
Iām not sure its thisā¦ in THIS particular case. Americans are, frankly, notoriously cheap. And not always savvy. And, maybe it isnāt just an American thing.
For example, we always opine on the exceptionalism and wonder of the āsmall business ownerā and how vital they areā¦ we even have a āshop localā day near Thanksgiving where we are supposed to purchase something from a local retailer. We have to have this because nobody shops ālocalā. Walmart is our largest retailer by far (maybe Amazon is close, IDK anymore). Why is Walmart our biggest retailer? Because it is CHEAP. We lament the loss of our corner hardware store run by that one guy we all liked, but everybody shops at Home Depot because they are cheaper. We support the ālocal guyā with our mouth. We support Home Depot with our wallet.
Restaurants that have tried āno-tippingā donāt do well, because they have to adjust the prices to reflect what it now actually costs them to run their restaurant without the labor subsidy provided by the customers. And customers donāt like it. We donāt want to pay $19 for a cheeseburger (except at WDW) when we can get the same cheeseburger for $14 at a different restaurant (with a $5 tip added at the end).
Ditto with airlinesā¦ many people look at the āfareā without adding in the āfeesā fares are published in BIG BOLD numbersā¦ fees are in small mice-type buried somewhere.
At any rateā¦ I think sticker shock is at least part of the reason we have so much trouble changing tipping policies.
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I think you have a great point. Until it is introduced en masse, the tipping thing will be compulsory.
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Which demonstrates the nonsense of the system. Why is there no transparency.
I donāt think anyone working in a Disney TS restaurant is struggling to make rent. Thereās a LOT of tip money sloshing around.
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Also, how the hell is this my responsibility. I eat at a restaurant and suddenly Iām responsible for someone elseās rent payments?
Make the service charge compulsory if people are going to starve otherwise.
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You get that thatās just nuts, right?
yesā¦ yes I doā¦
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I think you are greatly over complicating things for effect. But never have I found tipping to be confusing or complicated. I get the bill. I calculate 20%. Done. I donāt need to worry about who gets what, for what reason, etc. You donāt have to like the systemā¦but it is the way of things here in the States.
If you want transparencyā¦fine. I have never found it necessary.
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If that were generally true, this thread wouldnāt exist.
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This thread is about more than just dining tips. And the customary percentage one gives has changed over time. Was 15% when my mother was a waitress (nearly 70 years ago). These days it is 20%. You can pick a percentage. From that point forward, it is simple.
Againā¦you NEED it to be complicated for you to continue the point. But it isnāt complicated.
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I want simplicity.
I want to order a meal, have it served to me and then pay the price for that.
I donāt want to be guilt-tripped or blackmailed into making āoptionalā payments, or be asked to make performance-related pay decisions.
I just want lunch.
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Yep. Thatās exactly what I do.
But letās play the game. Letās say the tip was ābuilt inā to the price. I still have to calculate the final bill by adding tax. Why not say that the tax should be included in the price as well? (Maybe it should beā¦would make it even easier!!!)
But adding 20% is actually easier than calculating the 6% we have to pay for tax in our state. (But they are usually nice to give me the bill with the tax already added into the price, even though it wasnāt on the menu.)
It is simple. You are a maths guy. Calculating 20% shouldnāt complicate things. Again, you want an entire system that is standard in America to change becauseā¦you donāt like it? Great. Good luck. In the meantime, it is what it is. And it is simple.
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In Europe, tax is included in the price as well - granted the tax is steep. But itās nice knowing the total price up front.
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I wouldnāt be too sure about this.
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I have eaten in a couple places that have done thisā¦but it is tricky, particularly for restaurants that have chains that are in multiple states, because the tax rate for various states can vary. I suppose one way around this might be for a chain to charge the same price in all states, using the highest tax rate as a basis for setting the priceā¦but then in those states that have lower tax rates, it just means you, as the consumer, are technically paying more for the same food.
ETA: Althoughā¦in this era of digital menus, it is probably less tricky! 
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A bit dramatic for a tipping thead, eh?
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See, this is where I think you are not seeing this issue the way Americans do. Weāve mostly accepted that
and however much we might like to change it, itās not going to change overnight.
Tipping in a restaurant in the U.S. isnāt really āoptional.ā Itās baked into the economics of the business. True, you arenāt going to be arrested if you fail to tip, or tip too little. But youāre breaching your end of the social contract if you do that.
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I wish we could do away with the tipping system, but until we do I wish people would stop thinking of restaurant tipping this way. We donāt hold back on payments to our dentists or plumbers for poor service. Restaurant workers should get the same respect.
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Oh look, another tipping thread that went south real quick. Who would have guessed? 
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