I went back to look at the double head-to-head blog. Trying to guesstimate where tester 1.5 would have ended up. Meaning with G+, but without ILL$$$.
Rise was 79/13 minutes
Railway 44/10 minutes
So, ILL$$$ saved 100 minutes in line. Tester#2 had 121 less time in line. So, only ~21 minutes were saved by G+. Of course, the plans for a real Tester 1.5 would have been different, so only an estimate.
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I donāt agree with this assessment. If pre LL, 500 people got through the standby line and the wait was 20 minutes, and post-LL, 300 people got through the standby line and 200 through the LL line and the standby line was still 20 minutes, I donāt see the issue. Itās just shuffling around how people go through the line. The only tangible thing that can be measured that directly impacts guests is actual wait time in standby pre vs post LL.
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Exactly!
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Youāre rightā¦except that that wasnāt my point. My point is that you canāt compare wait times to determine much, since it would require knowing the size of that line to really be meaningful data. Comparing data from āsimilarā CL days doesnāt work either, since CLs are calculated based on wait times.
There is a lot more specific data needed to determine if it is actually making standby line slower or now.
From a purely practical standpoint, we care about our actual wait times (to a degree) and donāt care about the other aspects. But from a data analysis perspective, thatās not enough to see what Genie+ is actually doing.
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You make me almost feel sorry for buying G+ and plotting how to use it.
I will say, though, that if I were at the beginning of WDW planning and I hadnāt told DD, Iād have totally scrapped the idea. Also, this is our one-and-done trip. People had told me that Iād change my mind about going back. I was open to that idea. Now I really really donāt see it. If it werenāt for DD looking forward to WDW, Iād have scrapped the idea even now. And, Iām someone that has literally wanted to go for 40+ years. So, that is saying something.
Also, I donāt have a choice of a standby-only experience (as in everyone is standby only) or paying for G+. My choice is pay for G+ or be at a disadvantage to everyone else. But, Iām grumpy about paying extra. I suspect that Disney wonāt make as much extra money on this as they think. Many people will cut back in other ways and maybe not in trip-length like the hope. Going off-site is an obvious solution, particularly without MDE. For us, Iāve cut wayyyyy back on our Disney dining budget. Dining and resorts have a huge upcharge because Disney, so I have to think their profit margin is large.
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I donāt necessarily agree this is true, depending on when you are goingā¦but regardless, that is what I mean by captive audience selling. People arenāt buying G+ because it is a good product, but because Disney is manipulating things to make it so people feel like they need to.
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You canāt expect them to determine EVERYTHING, but time savings facts is what really matters. Look at these examples here. TP is collecting updated data and will have all this at our fingertips. (These are from some initial blogs in this thread)
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I donāt. Merely pointing out there are limitations in what can be gleaned from the data they do obtain.
Even those tables of data only show you that when FP+ is available, what the time differential is. But what it doesnāt show you is if you actually saved time in any given day, on average, by having a FP+ system in place versus not. That isnāt the TP is trying to measure, nor do I expect them do. But it also isnāt something that we can tell from this data.
G+ is being sold to us by Disney under certain pretenses that arenāt necessarily true. And as a result, people feel they NEED to buy it.
I donāt see how this is relevant to any discussion unless Disney is taking a national poll to see how many people want a second queue. 
Iām with you that we shouldnāt have Lightning Lanes, but it is what it is brother.
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Only if people fork over money for it.
Dude. Ya gotta move on 
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Actually, Iām more angry about this now than I ever have before, because the way Disney is doing this has gone from being a bad idea to downright thievery in my view. When will it end? When people stop just accepting this as okayā¦or until Disney corrects their wrongs in this.
Touring plans already knows the answer to that question.
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LOLā¦ I donāt think so. I agree w/ Ryan, but most ppl (sounds like you too) are willing to open your wallet and go along or shrug thinking nothing can be doneā¦ thatās how I feel too (Iām conflicted). I donāt know how, the collective, we can change it. To be clear what offends me is that it costs SO much just to get into the park and now they want me to pay more to ride. I thought that was what my ticket paid for. I know in the pastā¦ 1971ā¦ we paid to park and paid to enter, then paid to ride w/ individual tickets (a, b, c, d, e). I guess thatās what this resembles but the price to go in is already SO much that it offends to ask for more to ride too. Or more accurately cut the line to ride.
I also hated the FP system just b/c I could never take advantage of it. We always got our tickets the first day (military at SoG) and any good FPs were gone, so the whole thing was a bust for us.
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But youāre still going.
And Ryan is still going
So it hasnāt offended you enough quite yet.
When people stop going, thatās when theyāll know they have gone too far.
But we wonāt stop going.
And so it goes.
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oppsā¦ not trying to start anything. I am opening my wallet already. Not for Genieā¦ yet??? I really am conflicted b/c I love Disney and I want to be there but itās really becoming less at a greater cost.
The real voice of reason
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see commment below yours
(dude youāre pointing at yourself LOL)
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