The good news for @sanstitre_has_left_the_building is that if you squint REAL HARD, you can see a tiny little glimpse of red in the Orlando region.
Which is one of the ways in which this whole thing is even more stressful than usual. I don’t even know if I can come to Orlando in October. I may not know until quite close to the departure date.
On another thread someone observed (based on things I’d said) that the only reason October is a thing for me is because I’ve paid big dollar on non-refundable flights. That is substantially true. If I could get my money back on my flights I would do and I’d leave things until next year. But I can’t. So I either plan a trip and how it works out, or I lose well over a thousand dollars.
I don’t want to address this point specifically, but it general I think it can be true that people need a break. Mental health is at stake here.
I don’t think you need the crazy face. I think the statement could perfectly possibly be true.
You have to squeeze so hard that the red you see is blood in your own eye.
I really hope Disney continues to get it right. They could so easily destroy it by getting greedy and letting in too many guests.
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Well, yes and no. If you want to see the big stuff - Old Faithful, Grand Prismatic Spring, Mammoth Hot Springs - you will be dealing with crowds. We drove into Old Faithful and realized it was about to blow based on how many people were crowding the boardwalk, standing shoulder to shoulder with no masks. It gave me a little anxiety. We stayed back, watched her go off, and then set off on the longer walk behind it. But the crowds were bad.
If you hike (we didn’t hike in yellowstone this time) and choose a less used trail, you could probably avoid people. But even popular trails we found to be crowded in Teton and Glacier. If you get out early or late, it’s better of course. At Teton we walked at Schwabacher’s Landing which is a lovely little walk along a creek in the valley. We encountered very few people. The next day we took a boat across Jenny Lake to hike to Hidden Falls and Inspiration Point. That trail was pretty crowded - especially coming down. We went early enough to miss a lot of the crowds. We were wearing masks outside when social distancing wasn’t possible. Most weren’t. I know the advice is conflicting on this so I kind of gave people a pass. Outside, passing quickly, air flow (wind) is good …
The best thing we did in Yellowstone, was an evening drive to see wildlife. We headed out from Mammoth east to the Lamar Valley. So many bison right next to the road, crossing the road, wallowing in dirt. It was so much fun. Big daddy bison herding female and baby bison across the road. We just loved it. We also saw a little black bear both from a distance and then right next to the road. It was a dream come true for me.
So you can find some activities to social distance. But it’s not always easy and you might have to skip stuff you want to see/do.
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I’m not going to judge people for going to WDW as long as they are following all of the safety guidelines - masking, distancing, etc. - both there and on their way there. I am sorely tempted to hop a plane and just go for a day or two. But for a variety of reasons, I will not. Maybe I will go in October for my birthday. But only if @sanstitre_has_left_the_building is going to be there! 
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We won’t know that until pretty close to the departure date!
You have a wise friend, and you made a good choice listening to her.
Sigh. Ditto. But I have to say it and then I’ll retreat back to the Covid thread.
Even if not a single person catches Covid at WDW, I can’t help but feel it is irresponsible of them to be open at all, and I can’t believe the state is allowing it.
Last week, Florida put in a request to the federal government to send them health care workers because they can’t handle the load on their own. More and more hospitals in Florida are halting all nonemergency inpatient surgeries.
But yet they are inviting MORE people to come to the state on vacation?
With thousands of people at WDW, even without any Covid cases, some of them are going to require medical treatment. No one plans to get sick or have an accident on their vacation, but it’s going to happen.
When they are unable to be self sufficient in providing healthcare to their own residents, they shouldn’t be promoting tourism.
I get the mental health aspects of needing a vacation, but specifically going to a disaster area that is unable to provide for its own residents doesn’t seem like the best choice.
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I am sympathetic to what you’re saying. It’s kind of bizarre that WDW is open right now given the conditions on the ground. But here’s my best argument for why WDW being open is ok (fully admitting I could be wrong - please everyone do your research and come to your own conclusions 
):
- WDW is not just a Disney cash cow - it is the major driver of economic activity in Central Florida, as well as cottage industries upon cottage industries. Hotels, restaurants, merchandise, travel agents, bloggers, vloggers, influencers, gator zoos, golf courses, etc. etc. etc. People’s livelihoods are on the line, and it’s not something that can easily be patched with taxpayer dollars. (Not to mention DVC renters/owner who could be out thousands of dollars if their vacation is cancelled.)
- To support all the government measures that are being taken, we need as strong a tax base as is possible. If an activity can be done safely (even if not risk free), it should be allowed to continue. Some activities are simply impossible to do safely - cruise ships, indoor concerts, sporting events, Broadway plays, etc. - to support these industries, everyone else is going to have to pick up the slack. We can print money for a while but unfortunately, that doesn’t work for long without potentially catastrophic (think 2008 on steroids) consequences.
- Opening and closing WDW is a monumental undertaking. The opening date was announced over a month ago (May 27th) when the picture seemed a lot rosier. If they close now, it may be three months before they can reopen again - and by then there could be another wave. The current surge could be only 3-4 more weeks till it abates, and WDW may have a minimal impact on that.
- People will self-select to forego their trip if conditions are not good. The parks are not very crowded right now, and besides caps, part of that is that many are wisely staying away. But that doesn’t mean those who go are foolish … they are taking a measured risk.
- My understanding is that the worst situation in Florida is in the Miami area. While Orange County is not doing great, it’s not as bad as other areas of the state (according to this source, R is most likely below 1 right now and still trending down).
- If conditions escalate to crisis level (triage in hospitals, etc.), Disney is likely to shut down. If cases start noticeably surging because of Disney, it could be a while before they reopen. But there’s a decent chance this won’t happen based on what we know about mitigation methods. (I’m crossing my fingers!)
- Some people are going to go out in public, go on vacation, be around other people, etc. Better to go someplace where people are taking the virus seriously than to go to their local bar / club / movie theater / neighborhood BBQ where people aren’t wearing masks or aren’t distancing. And maybe upon returning home they’ll take some lessons with them - which brings me to my next point -
- Disney is showing a great example of how to operate in a pandemic. If every establishment used the same methods, we would probably have R<1. Many other countries have far less restricted economies because masks, distancing, and sanitization make a huge difference.
- If a vaccine is impossible, this may be the future not just in WDW but everywhere. If people feel uncomfortable putting themselves or others at risk, they are of course free to stay home. But I imagine many people will eventually accept this new risk profile and adapt - ideally while being as careful as possible.
To finish, I will say that I am not planning to go to WDW until May 2021, but would go now if I could. I think it’s good that most people can’t or won’t go. Safe operation depends highly on very low crowd levels. But if people are willing and able to go, I won’t judge them for it.
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I totally agree with #8.
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@Jeff_AZ and @amvanhoose_701479
Thank you both for your thoughts. Well though out and respectful as always. I really appreciate both of you and your insights.
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This.
The three of us happened, coincidentally, to have doctor visits in May. Scheduled well before sheltering in place. With 3 different doctors - 2 general practice and one pulmonologist/internal med dr. Each of them were careful - mask wearing, distancing - but also said, this [Covid-19] isn’t the herd thinner.
Does any of us doubt there’s a herd thinner virus in the future? Covid-19 is a great practice run, especially if WDW can show us how we maintain a semblance of an economy in such a situation.
Because we’ve also got plenty of examples of what not to do.
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I’ve stopped posting pictures of our Disney and Aulani trips before Covid because people were already commenting about ridiculous it is that we go so often. I definitely won’t be posting pictures if we go during COVID, especially because I’m a business owner and I don’t to lose business from anyone who has a strong opinion about this sensitive topic.
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Thanks! I appreciate @amyvanhoose’s patience and willingness to share her perspective, supported by so much research and data.
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Yes, this! I am truly concerned about people who are dealing by saying “until there’s a vaccine…”. I feel like this is not the best way to approach the situation. We can hope for a vaccine, yes, but we also need to be prepared for the very real possibility that a vaccine may be a long time coming, or not effective at all. And we need to be thinking about what risks we are willing to take indefinitely. And that answer will not be the same for any two people.
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If only more understood the actions needed NOW to help protect more.
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All very good points. And I realize that the conditions in Orlando aren’t as bad as the conditions in Miami, but them going to the feds for medical staffing help instead of shifting resources within Florida is pretty concerning. I am very thankful for the March/April shutdowns that spaced out the regional spikes and made it possible for the feds to have help to send.
I was much more supportive of the “just travel responsibly” concept until the stresses on the Florida health care system started becoming so apparent. That’s a pretty bright line I personally wouldn’t cross.
The economic impacts of this are pretty devastating. But people dying because they were forced to delay medical procedures until they became life threatening is more devastating.
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This is the weak point for me, too. I honestly don’t know the details of how the Orlando area hospitals are, but I hope the officials are keeping their eye on things and are willing to pull the plug on Disney if it reaches a certain level. I understand that’s putting a lot of faith in officials that perhaps is not warranted.
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And that’s not easy information to get. They were going on and on here in Texas about bed availability being adequate. Then the stories started coming out about the staffing issues. Some of the “Phase 2/sustainable surge” ICU beds are scattered all over hospital campuses, and the already thin ICU staff is losing time going to where the beds are. (Ex. Tending ICU patients in the ER until they can get a bed in the actual ICU and whatnot.)
ETA: Texas is also getting fed assistance with medical staffing.
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I can’t see Desantis doing this
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I think it’s more that I am risking flying…even though I upgraded to first class much to the chagrin of DH. Thanks I don’t plan on cancelling unless the cancel my flights or they close down Yellowstone and GTNP again
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