Do we know too much?

We’re all moaning about G+ and LL$ but I saw a YouTube video this week that gave me a different perspective.

They went to AK and did exactly what Genie told them to. With no additional expenditure.

Objectively, they had an awesome day. They rope-dropped FOP (as instructed by Genie) and had a wait under an hour. They did the trails around the Tree, then the Bone Yard, Satu’li, EE, Gorilla Falls, Conservation Station, FOTLK, …

So an awesome virtual ride in a richly themed area, a major rollercoaster, a decent and relatively cheap meal, lots of animal stuff, a show, and wandering around an fantastically themed park.

If you knew nothing about AK and so had no expectations and no FOMO, I think you’d think you’d had a pretty awesome day.

Our problem collectively is that we know too much and have done too much.


We all have choices. I don’t think I’ll ever use Genie+ I’m content w/ watching wait times and using TP if necessary.

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Yes, but you’re not the demographic I’m thinking about. You have an AP (I think) and live in Florida.

We’re all thinking that WDW is going to go bust because of outrage about the changes. I’m saying that ignorance may be bliss. You show up with very little foreknowledge or expectations and I reckon you can have an awesome time.

You might not be able to ride ROTR, but you can enjoy the theming of SWGE and you may never even notice that ROTR is there or that you missed out on riding it. Even if you do realise there’s a ride there, you won’t know what it is. But you’ve had a wrap at Ronto Roasters, some blue milk, some merch browsing, a ride on the fricken Millennium Falcon: Wow! What a morning! And there’s still so much more to see and do during the rest of your day! Then you take the Skyliner back to your budget hotel. The kids play about in the pool. Best vacation ever.


Yes, that’s me (both are true).

There are not very many of ‘us’ that might actually influence Disney’s decision making. More ppl are ignorant of all the in/outs, as you say, and have a grand time. I agree w/ you that the average visitor isn’t phased by the changes at all. I’m only annoyed at the rise in cost w/ less return for the extra cost.

DH and I were on the bus to the AKL and a mom and son asked the driver how they got to the park (AK) when they got off the bus. The driver had to tell her to hop on the correct bus at the stop. They didn’t realize or know that the bus they were on was going to a resort and not AK park. That level of ignorance doesn’t seem blissful to me :unamused: :rofl:


I think you’re absolutely right.

All the criticisms and potential improvements for Genie, etc. are all valid. But I agree our knowledge of what we are missing or what could be better is negatively impacting our perceptions compared to someone who doesn’t know better.


My snarky inner voice wondered if they could read :grimacing:


Glad you just chimed in because I was just going to quote you. I think you summed it up perfectly here, especially your last point:

For those who are confused about Genie+:

It’s worth noting that all these strategies are good for edge cases and absolute maximization.

For most people most of the time, the following is all you need to remember:

1) Get your first LL at 7am
2) Get another LL every time you tap into a LL, even if you’ve just gotten one
3) Try to get another LL if it’s been 2 hours since you got your last one

Yes, there are nuances with park opening, return windows closing, 2-hour rule straddling, etc. But if you follow the above, 90% of the time you’ll have about as many LL reservations as you can get to in a day. At MK on a slow-ish day, if return windows are immediate or near immediate, the 2-hour rule won’t even come into play. Your biggest problem will be leaving breaks for meals, bathroom, and shopping.

Take heart, Liners! It’s only complicated if you want to squeeze every last drop out of this system.”


My next trip — !! — will be December 2022. I could easily spoil it for myself by worrying about whether Tron and GOTG will be open by then and, if they are, will I get to ride them.

Yet, I just got back from the Best Trip Ever and neither Tron nor GOTG were even a thing.


For Liners maybe. But for ignorant first-timers they needn’t know even that.

And what you describe reminds me a bit of the trap I got into one time at MK in the before times, where I was so obsessed with scoring my next FPP, that I barely paid attention to the ride I was actually on.


I used to run around like a crazy person trying to fit everything in and then at some point I stopped that nonsense. I told myself that I had been to Disney soooo many times already in my life I didn’t need to act so frantically, that I needed to slow down and really soak it in. When my kids were little I took more breaks so they could nap and not become frazzled. I decided that I needed to take better care of my adult self and slow down. The problem is that the adrenalin kicks in as soon as I start on my way there. It doesn’t matter if I am flying in (not now) or driving in… it’s still exciting to me.


Your making a lot of assumptions that all those things go right. Busses are late. Plans change, kids have accidents, It rains, Etc. The value of tracking and have a guide is you can pivot if things are not going right. Sometimes even that doesn’t work but we do our best. I would be very hesitant relying on Genie recommendations after this week. A couple of stretches I was only getting dining + audio tales + show options for much of the day


Yeah I think you’re on to something. When I went in 2010 for the first time as an adult I remember seeing Fast Pass signs and thinking “I wonder how much those cost?”

I had 0 clue what I was doing, but I had the time of my life and sparked my obsession with WDW.

Those of us burdened with knowledge get all bent out of shape when things aren’t made for us, but we’re a small minority of Disney’s customer base.

There are 4 other families at my work that have either just been, or just about to head to WDW for their first trip. They’ve done almost no planning, couldn’t care less when I told them about TP, looked at me like I was mad when I explained getting a leading reservation to make dining reservations, but they had an amazing time making memories with their families.


I think my upcoming trip will have the best of both worlds. Small World and MF are both equally exciting, since I haven’t been on either. But, I know the difference between AK and AKL.


I think your main point is right. I have told the story many times of my first trip as an adult. I had joined Touring Plans and heard about all the amazing little things that I should see and do. I LOVED these parks so much that I was going to show every inch of specialness to my DH and DD. I planned every moment from rope drop onward. And I broke the trip.

My DD5 got super anxious - she thought Disney was a building. Main St overwhelmed her and she felt like she was going to throw up (I was going to start at AK because she loves animals, but there was the slightest chance of rain so I switched parks). I was going to RD Peter Pan (my favorite) and my DH became the “Mom’s schedule enforcer” because he knew how much planning I had done. My daughter just wanted to look at the ducks in the moat and take pictures of them with her little fake princess camera (that’s the real magic right there). I knew too much.

A friend went a few weeks earlier. She knew nothing. It rained the entire time. Her husband will not get up early on a vacation. They found dole whips with alcohol and delightful snacks. Browsed stores in the rain. They had a fantastic time. The only drawback to their not knowing enough was they did Stich’s great escape and she (like me) has a fear of not being able to get out - so that stunk. I also snagged them a BOG dinner that was the highlight of there trip - so there was that.

My issue with how we all use Touring Plans is that you can put those extra moments in your plan, but ultimately you start optimizing them out of your day. In an effort to maximize you start to miss the little things. Is the Little Mermaid ride really better than watching the ducks in the moat and looking at the details in the castle?

Since then my trips have been short - pick two parks, enjoy the resorts, dive into those parks, and never try to maximize, even if I know all of the tricks. And I have turned my family into park lovers and DVC owners. As I plan my first full length trip back to the parks (6 park days) I continuously ask DD11 about my newest scheme and if it will break the trip. She is usually brutally honest.

I am glad that you found a video where Genie worked out perfectly. I am super disappointed that for HS and MK it is not quite where I want it to be yet for all my newbie friends and family. I love that it suggests “off the beaten path” rides and highlights the entertainment (we are so lucky Disney has brought most of it back. Let’s keep it!) But I think it still needs to take the person’s requests into account. Even if it limits the number of Tier 1 vs Tier 2 rides it lets them request. If they get that balance right, I think it will be the perfect tool for reducing stress of 1st time park goers and help them find some of the extra magic.


Several families I know went to Disney and hated it. Because they didn’t have a plan. They are the demographic where Genie will hit the mark. The last minute, don’t have a clue, think they can just show up kind of folks. However, even the knowledgeable need a plan. Planning is a key component of management. I mean … adulting. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Knowing too much isn’t helping me get the ADR’s I want. Or, are we saying the problem is I know of too many restaurants and that is why I am frustrated?Knowing too much didn’t save me from waiting on hold for hours the past few months. Or having to book three separate reservations for the same hotel.
Knowing too much does not convince me that some of what Disney is doing these days is an additional money grab. Even a novice can see a WDW vacation in and of itself is a money grab. :laughing:
I see what you’re saying - except the part where the problem is we know too much.


I think it is what you do with that knowledge that makes the difference! Before, I tried to use it to maximize the fun. Now I use it to curate the fun.


Ok. Good point.


Also I think this needs to be a personality category on the Meyers Briggs and other personality tests. Maybe it could be like a Disney add on - I am an ENTP(P) or ENTP+ :laughing:


Edited to add - Seems to me Walt Disney had an ENTP personality type.


INFJ. So obviously I just need to know how to avoid the biggest crowds and limit my time being squeezed up against strangers while waiting in line. The rest is gravy. When I think about WDW my mind wanders to the sound of me and DSthen7 laughing maniacally on coasters and envisioning us dancing through the abondoned walkways of adventureland to the music of HEA. I think our joy comes more from the fact that we share our Disney obsession with one another and less from the individual components of WDW. I plan because I’m the only adult in our family and juggling the responsibility is impossible without thinking things through. But my plans are flexible because I’m the only adult in our family and flexibility is a necessity. DS commented a while back that we have fun no matter where we are. I don’t feel any urgency around maximizing my dollars or time because he’s right. I’m definitely going to “waste” some money and that’s fine. I just budgeted that in. WDW is like comfort food. When I sit down to a meal of fried chicken and collard greens I don’t need to plan for my satisfaction. It’s implied. That’s how we’re approaching our trip.