Coronavirus Outbreak: Is it safe to travel?

We actually don’t have more intensive care capacity than Italy or China. See here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/13/coronavirus-numbers-we-really-should-be-worried-about/

@sanstitre_has_left_the_building - I haven’t finished this thread yet, but I do see you asked several times about what makes this particular virus different. Since you are a math teacher, I’m a little surprised to hear you ask it this way - the exponential factor of contracting the disease, coupled with the lack of resources to address it is the difference. I was in the same camp as many others a few weeks ago - this is nothing! it’s not as severe as the flu! But, when you think about how many people are likely to get it, and you consider how many of those may need intensive care, and then look at the available resources, it’s not a good outcome. The whole push by the US right now is to “flatten the curve” - the idea being that if we can slow the spread (not eradicate it), we will not overwhelm our healthcare facilities and will be able to more successfully treat it.

I heard an NPR story this morning on the UK approach - it’s an interesting take - to wait on quarantine until the situation becomes more dire because of all the factors you’ve alluded to already (likely the US will have SEVERE economic repercussions from this), but it’s a gamble. Everything we’ve been told is the US is about 11 days behind Italy, so the country is trying to get ahead as best we can. I find great comfort that the majority of folks are uniting behind the “social distancing” - to me, it’s the first sign of solidarity that the community matters.

However, it does enrage me that when 20 school children were murdered, the country did NOTHING to stop gun violence. It enrages me that as we face this new challenge, people fail to see that a for-profit healthcare system and a societal infrastructure that does not provide paid sick leave or free child care are part of the problem. So I do agree with you, @sanstitre_has_left_the_building, that I would have expected most of this country to sit back and say, “oh well, I’m relatively fit and I have a good job and can afford to take two months off work if I really need to, so no need to self isolate here.” And, in fact, I HAVE heard people say that - in grocery stores and at gas stations and on my social media feed. My sense is that all of this social distancing came from peer pressure - first a couple colleges made the decision to move to remote learning, then a few more, then some sports teams decided to delay some games, then suddenly local governments were making decisions. NONE of this came from the top down. It was a ground up phenomenon - and so, for the time being, I will sit back and find hope in the fact that we (or most of us anyway) have elected, as a country, to do what we can together to try and reduce the negative health impact of this particular situation. And who knows?! Maybe when we’re on the other side of this, folks will start to consider the impact they can have on all the other broken systems. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

In the meantime, here’s an article that I think outlines a ton of really important points that are very easy to follow: 11 coronavirus pandemic charts everyone should see - Vox

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My son goes to college in a county with ~ 45,000 people and they now have two positive cases. Drive miles and miles between houses. They were to close Wednesday and I just got an SOS call from here. Kids told to leave now. I think he’s scared.

And your numbers @Pod ar e terrifying me.

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Am I misinformed? I thought the CDC was saying 80% would be mildly affected. If you have a family of 10, eight might not know the difference between this and any other flu

Are we confusing draconian measures to smooth the curve (social distancing) with expectations of actual numbers of cases? How many of us here won’t even know we’ve got it? How many times has a family member been sick and you thought maybe your allergies were acting up or possibly a sore lymph node. Did you have it, too?

Google number of ventilators in the US. The actual purpose of this exercise is not to discern the actual number. The point is to see what was being said back in 2009 or even 2013 when that year’s emerging virus had folks concerned about ventilators and possible infectious rates.

Early fatality reports from China have fatalities for persons over 80 at nearly 15%. Italy has numbers at nearly half that at 8%.

Is social distancing so that we don’t get sick? Or is it so healthcare can try to keep up with the really really sick ones.

One of my uncles traced his mother’s family tree back to the 1600s in Norway. Being a genealogy geek, he produced a book of charts of ancestors with all pertinent dates. Being the totally normal person that I am, I perused those numbers minutely. And found a family from the late 1600s. Mom, dad and 10 kids. The deaths of mom and eight of the kids occurred over the course of a week’s time. Dad and the two oldest - in their late teens - were left. That’s a catastrophe. And I am sure that what we’ve got here now is nothing like that.

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I also don’t fear it. I would rather just get it and get it over with as well. Watching the government reaction disturbs me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them respond to something like this since 9/11. Prior to that probably WWII. That gets my spidy senses tingling a bit.

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Standardized state testing . . .

vs corona virus.

:crazy_face:

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One year+ is the US estimate. But with resources of the rest of world combined, a vaccine might be available much sooner. Let’s hope!

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I read something somewhere about the decline of new cases being an potential indicator. No idea now, where.

And with a decline in healthcare loading there will be a natural relaxation of social distancing.

Until next fall.

Please read the article again. We have vastly more ICU capacity/ventilators per 100,000 people than either Italy or China, at about 50/100,00 if all ventilators (including in the OR) are used. Perhaps not regular beds, but it seems to be ventilatory capacity that is the sticking point.

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Hang in there. I understand anxiety. I have been there in other situations.

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Ventilators, yes. And you’re right, that does seem to be the more acute issue as of now. But the lack of beds is nearly as important, no?!

If it gets to that point, beds and space can be improvised, ventilators generally can’t.

Although creative solutions do appear Coronavirus and 3D printing » 3D Printing Media Network - The Pulse of the AM Industry

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Dumbledore

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Live update in the UK on TV now. They are telling us to work from home if possible and avoid unnecessary contact with others such as going to the pub, theatre etc. From next weekend, over 70s and those with health conditions should self isolate for 12 weeks. Amazing what happens when London is identified as a hotspot. Schools are still open though.

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Over the weekend, the Governor of California ordered all nonessential employees (I am one.) to telecommute. There is only so much many of us can do from home.

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Are you still getting paid?

DS19 has nearly $300 of Southwest credit to use up by June 2nd. SW won’t extend the credit. He got the credit after we rebooked his December flight to WDW through United to get a less snowy layover airport than Denver in mid December!

He canceled his round trip flight home for Spring Break and looks like he will need to cancel another round trip flight home for his cousin’s Commencement Mother’s Day weekend.

Last night, he was itching to use that credit to go somewhere fun for a couple of weekends. I told him to wait. These young people don’t understand the gravity of the situation!

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There is no guidance there yet.

I presume that as long as I have work to do, I can bill and get paid. And I presume I can still drive in to the office here and there to work a bit and get stuff.

But, I can’t imagine our Administrative staff having much to do at home. I am technical staff and will still have engineering drawings and reports to review and reports and permits to write. But how do I go get mail in the mailbox?

Patience as people above my pay grade figure out how to navigate this unchartered territory.

Wish my DS is scared!

No. For this reason:

That’s pretty cool! I had seen where some doctors pulled apart their stethoscopes for that purpose, but I thought “No!! Not that expensive Littmann!!” :rofl:

I think the biggest problem will be actual staff, when it comes right down to it. But the US doesn’t have as many beds because everything is outpatient. So that staff exists, and can be moved around as needed.

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Well, a dash of good news out if Italy (usual “reliable” source-Facebook friend of a friend!)

No food shortages and people doing their best to cooperate. Just short on hand sanitizer and masks. His wife is making homemade masks using sanitary pads as a filter? Being used by the sick as better than nothing.

If infrastructure remains sound (utilities and good distribution), we can sustain for quite a while. It’s just going to get weird and stressful trying to sort out how to keep everyone afloat. We can do this though!

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