See, I just told my family that we were getting up for RD and tough luck. When they balked at it, I told them about the 6 hour wait on FOP and how we can beat that if we’re there early enough.
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Honestly, on our last trip to Disney World, they followed my plan without complaint. Sleep in days came on our last trip to Universal because we had express pass for everything, so being there early was less critical. But I, personally, like the emptier park and the ability to do more things with less people.
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To me, this is really one of the only ways to meet the characters. Waiting in line after line does not sound appealing to me. I have all boys, so I can luckily avoid all the princesses. We did, however, wait for Star Wars characters and Baymax, but only because we couldn’t see them any other way and the waits were relatively short.
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Whether he meets any others or not I probably will! I waited for Baymax and probably will again, Olaf is one and done, I want to meet Anna and I skipped it last time so that’s a must, and Mickey at MK is a tradition. I don’t generally do princesses but I might if I have solo time and there’s a short wait or I pick up a FP.
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Where is Olaf M&G? My son would love that.
At HS, I seem to remember it was near Backlot Express but I wouldn’t swear to it, it was over 2 years ago. It was indoors.
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In HS near Star Tours.
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Now, see…this is where staying off property pays off. And not only off property, but off property a significant distance away that there are no other options unless they want to pay big bucks. So, when Mom and Dad say we’re leaving for the parks at 7:30, they don’t have much say in the matter! 
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So I thought about this a lot last night and maybe I see where we diverge in opinion? If we take FPP to the extreme: like if you could prebook 6 rides, but standby lines were all multiple hours then a person could do 6 rides for no waiting, 7 rides for 2 hrs. waiting, 8 rides, for 4 hrs., etc. The result would be that most people would get less rides overall but for far less waiting. To get the same number of rides as pre-FP, you’d probably have to wait more, but to get fewer, you’d barely have to wait at all.
I am the kind of person who would probably just do my 6 rides and be happy I didn’t ever have to wait and then spend the afternoon poking around in shops or eating. I know other people would be mad that in order to do 8 rides, they now have to stand in a few 2 hr. lines, more or less cancelling the benefit of the FP’s. Anyone who wanted to do 9 or 10 rides would probably be furious.
Does that sound about right?
Edit to add: When we went in December and did a trip with barely any waiting, we basically scheduled enough days to FP anything that would have any kind of real wait (save Anna and Elsa M&G which was our only 30 min. line). Everything we did standby was an “infinite capacity” attraction or RD or EMH. I could see how someone who didn’t have that flexibility or FP priority would be frustrated by how awful standby lines are. We, more or less, completely avoided standby lines.
I see what you’re saying. It isn’t that I disagree with you. But I’m talking about the average guest. Yes, it is true that any one individual can utilize the system to their benefit. But that’s true even when there are no FPPs at all. Those with inside knowledge should take advantage of it.
But the system, in general, does not benefit people overall.
I remember going to Disney before there was any kind of FP system. Lines were really long. We actually had to wait through the ENTIRE queue of BTMRR, for example. But how long did we wait? Too long ago to state with certainty, but I seem to remember it being on the order of about 30 minutes or so. For the ENTIRE QUEUE. These days, we go and the queue is rarely more than 1/4 full, but we’ll wait the same amount of time. Why? FPP!
Same with Space Mountain. I remember actually standing in the queue line all the way back to the dog listening to the giant phonograph. But the line actually moved, and we never waited an hour. Well before an hour.
I don’t think you can make that generalization without knowing people’s usage patterns. Clearly for someone who only wanted to ride 3 things, they get a huge benefit. Probably for people who are happy riding 3 major rides and a bunch of shows and “infinite capacity” rides they still get a fairly significant benefit. The people that it hurts are the people who want to do headliners beyond their 3 FP’s. We could discuss how many people fall into which category, but some people are getting objective benefit from FP. It’s not just perception.
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Yes, I can. Because if EVERYONE did the time-saving tricks, there would ultimately be no benefit for anyone. Time-saving tips are time-saving because it takes advantage of situations that are outside the norm. Take, for example, Touring Plans recommending that you hit up a certain attraction at 10:00 am instead of 1:00 pm to save time. Well, if EVERYONE followed this advice, the advantage is lost. TP works because it only applies to a relatively small number of people. Unfortunately, FPPs are an “advantage” to everyone. So if everyone is using them, there is no longer an actual benefit. (Not everyone DOES use them, though…so since they are there, you would be crazy to not use them.)
As I said, if you look at any given individual, you can find folks who make it work. But OVERALL, it is a wash.
Of course if EVERYONE moved to 10:00 it wouldn’t help. But if half the people moved to 10:00am and half stay at 1:00pm everyone is better off, both the movers and the stayers. If half the people who went during Christmas found a great deal and went the first week of September, everyone would be better off. The time saving tricks change people’s behavior and encourage people to do things they otherwise wouldn’t. Those changes in behavior can benefit them AND others.
In the FP specific case, what if a large proportion of guests are happier to ride 3 things waiting 0 total minutes than riding 6 things with a total of 3 hrs. of waiting? That’s certainly not an unreasonable hypothetical. Those people will ride their 3 things and go home/shop/eat happy, leaving the park for people who want to wait in standby who will ALSO be happy because half the park population is not using standby. Obviously standby will be worse than it was before, but standby riders will get 3 rides with 0 waiting and then however many rides they want with inflated standby times.
(And I hope that it’s clear that I am engaging this discussion because I find it interesting and find you a good discussion partner whom I respect. I bear no ill-will or anything like that).
Okay, if you are going to be hypothetical. But, do you think that a significant number of people ACTUALLY fall into such groups? For the price of admission, I really doubt you’ll find statistically many people doing that. (Particularly the going home…unless you are an AP holder…but then, AP holders, as a group, just increase waits for everyone!)
If they don’t go home and instead go eat, well, they are now adding to the lines for food for others.
Also, keep in mind that even if they DID leave after only 3 rides, they still LENGTHENED the lines of those 3 rides for everyone else.
The problem with this discussion is we’re comparing two completely separate groups of people. You are arguing the benefit for the well-informed, rare person who doesn’t mind doing very little. I’m talking about the crowd in GENERAL (everyone). Which means our arguments will both be correct!
I’m looking at a block of time, and total average time waiting for attractions. Let’s use your 6 hours example. With FPP, the total wait time would be roughly the same for the AVERAGE individual as it would be without offering FPPs at all.
Which leads me back to why I don’t like FPPs. Because, ultimately, it hasn’t reduced wait times for the average person, but it HAS required a great deal more advanced planning in order for anyone to become the person it IS advantageous of. It also means (as mentioned in the earlier post) that people are getting on the rides who are just “meh” about a ride well ahead of people who really WANT to ride simply because you are limited in your FPP choices.
I DO see FPP as being a great advantage to Disney, and I think it SHOULD be used as a benefit for on-site guests, though.
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I agree with you, only if people’s behavior doesn’t change. But I find it hard to believe that with FPP (which we both agree inflates standby significantly), people aren’t skipping more rides because they aren’t willing to wait. I contend that people are changing their behavior and riding less things (or less high demand things) overall. It’s true that they increase the waits for things like snack carts, but some of them also go ride Philharmagic or hang out on Main St. or do Sorcerers or shop, none of which have a significant impact on other guests.
The group of people I’m thinking of is actually the super casual. They have their 3 FP’s, they wander around the park going “60 min? Nope. 45 min? Nope. 90 min? Very nope. Oh, 10 min for this thing called MuppetVision? Okay, let’s try it.” Which is exactly what I think Disney wants. It’s the equivalent of moving people from Xmas to Sept.
I DO think that is happening. It is, in fact, part of Disney’s strategy. Get people to start riding the rides that otherwise are sitting there without riders part of the time because they are busy standing in line elsewhere.
The off-site guests, like myself, then, are offered easy access to FPPs on rides they probably otherwise wouldn’t do. (The same issue I had with rides they DO want to do, only in reverse!) I wouldn’t ride Figment, for example, by choice. But if no other FPPs are available, and I get one for Figment, I’ll find myself in line for Figment and ride it, thereby keeping me out of ANOTHER line.
But then, even that doesn’t help much, because those lines would end up being short anyhow.
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Yes. This is exactly what I think is happening and it’s what I think Disney intends to happen. It’s harder to ride a bunch of headliners all day; it’s easier to ride a few headliners and bunch of low demand rides.
One of the negative sides to this, of course, is the reverse psychology effect. Because everyone knows ahead of time that the FPPs are so hard to get for rides X, Y, and Z, the demand for those rides actually INCREASES and you have even MORE people trying to get on them than you would have otherwise. Sigh
I just want a system where everyone knows that Ryan is coming and stays out of the lines I’m heading to. Do they offer that system yet? 
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