We will just have to disagree on tips. I think when you spend years living on tips because your pay check is $20 and you are deciding what bill you will pay that month- it changes you forever.
You have your story- I have mine.
Should I also mention that although you can prepay your tips (or have them automatically charged) in the US there is often the expectation that you will also tip them in cash? I wonder if it will be the same on your cruise? (Envelopes provided in your stateroom the last full day)
Edited to add- this tip conversation should also recognize that we are Disney fanatics here (actually, I am just crazy) and these CMs have been out of work for months/over a year.
Off topic, but I’ve heard this expression before and curious if it is referring to playing cards or gardening equipment? Or something else I haven’t considered?
Ok. I can follow you on tips even if I don’t agree.
However, I get very tired of people from other countries who probably have had the reason for prices not including sales tax in the states told to them (though some may not have) or easily researchable bring this up like it’s a surprise or unusual practice. It’s neither because I’m sure guidebooks to the US give at least a minimal explanation about it, as guidebooks I’ve read always include customs travelers need to be aware of in the specific area or county I’m reading about.
The US is a large country made up with 50 states and several territories. Within those states are counties and within those cities, towns etc. In the US, because it is so large there isn’t just one entity that collects tax like in some smaller countries. In theory a specific percentage of tax could be collected from each of the levels described above. This means that the price plus tax could be different if purchased in different places for the same item. It all depends on what specific tax rates are in play. Sometimes a place will have a special tax that has a limited time in order to collect money for a specific project (best example is for sports arenas). Only items purchased in that geographic area will have that added on.
Because there are so many potential different tax rates an item could incur it is impossible for a vendor or a retailer to put the price plus tax on an individual item since tax rates can expire or be added at anytime (in theory ). That means if there was a change someone would have to go through a store’s ENTIRE inventory to change prices if tax was included on the sticker. That is too costly and time consuming for perhaps all but the smallest of stores to do. In most places you can google what the tax rate is, just like you would the exchange rate.
There is nothing dishonest or deceptive about this practice. It may be annoying and inconvenient particularly for visitors from other countries. However, it is being way too simplistic to expect a country the size of the US to function in the same manner as countries that are considerably smaller and have perhaps less complicated funding systems.
I am not debating what should be the process only stating what is the process. I hope this clarifies to some extent the system in the US. I’ve traveled internationally several times though not as much as I would like.
I’ve gone to places in the US that include tax in the price. Typically, they are tourist attractions, such as tickets for amusement parks, food at sports stadiums, etc, but it can be done. It should be easy to do now that so much is done digitally. And stores could do it because I’ve seen price tags change weekly for some products in Target, chain grocery stores, etc… If they can keep track of sales and clearance prices, which can vary from store to store, adding the tax shouldn’t be difficult.
Apparently some states don’t allow taxes to be included in the price and others do. I found this article with the list of states and whether they can include tax or not.
I know none of us can save the world but I will stop (maybe) after I share something that was shared with me on the Disney Dream.
On a ship you will meet many different crew members. Some of them you may have pre-tipped, but not all. People come into your life when you don’t expect it. Sometimes it might be a crew member that you will only know for three or four days. If you meet someone on a ship that has positively impacted your cruise, and you can, please tip them. $20 can sometimes have a positive impact on a family. A family that crew member might not see for many months.
I live in the Philadelphia suburbs. I can be in two other states in less than an hour and another three or four (depending on traffic) within another two hours. To further complicate matters, some counties can have their own taxes in some states.
So if I see an ad in my local Target circular that is mailed to my house and shop at a Target in my county the item that I saw advertised has a sales tax rate of 6%, if I travel 15 minutes south and cross the border into Philadelphia, the sales tax is 8%. Traveling 45 minutes east the sales tax is 6.6% in New Jersey and an hour south, Delaware has no sales tax at all.
How is Target supposed to handle that in their advertisement? List the pricing for all possible options in an hour radius of the mailing address? That could be a nightmare to fit all that in for each item in the ad.
I’ve found that the prices in the advertisements aren’t always correct for my local store even without taxes. My store might have a price cut on an item at a lower price than the sale price in the advertisement. The Target store across town might have it at the sale price. You could make you advertisements digital only and that would solve that problem.
In the UK, sales tax, which we call VAT (value-added tax), can be ridiculously arbitrary and complicated. For example, it is charged on chocolate-covered biscuits but not on chocolate-covered cakes.
In 1991, McVities, the manufacturers of Jaffa Cakes, found itself in court on the issue as to whether their products were liable to VAT. If they were, they would have to increase the price considerably, which would cut sales, or pay a big chunk of tax out of the existing price, which would cut profits. The issue turned on whether Jaffa Cakes are cakes or biscuits. The court decided that they were cakes. The arguments were surprisingly finely balanced.
The size of a country and the complexity of its tax system is not correlated. I get very tired of people who endlessly trumpet US exceptionalism. Tax rates, including VAT, in the UK can and do change on at least an annual basis. Additional taxes on petrol, alcohol and cigarettes also vary regularly and often retailers and consumers are given only a few hours to make the change. Yet all our prices are tax-inclusive and somehow we manage to handle it. Perhaps we’re just more efficient than the US or our technology is better. Which is odd because the US is such an enormous country.
As to the idiocy or laziness of tourists who haven’t studied US tax practices before entering the country, the guidebooks I’ve used — including the one that underpins this website and which we all regard as our bible — are all silent on the issue. Well, they mention that the sticker price doesn’t typically include tax, but they don’t explain why. And the US does seem to be exceptional in being the only country in the world I’ve been to where prices are not tax-inclusive, so far as I recall.
And it seems to me that the inconvenience of the practice is not just one for tourists to wrestle with. Locals must surely find it frustrating, too. A theme of this thread is how difficult the finances of the poorly paid are. Those extra dollars and cents count. It would be helpful for people to know what they’re paying before they get to the register.
Often times, those places where tax is included have just adjusted the price of the item to make a “nice” price. Like $10 or whatever work out with the taxes, but it’s a limited item and as you mentioned usually admission. That’s a very different situation then going to the grocery store. It also is not common when compared to the sheer number of things/admissions etc that can be purchased.
I will read your article later, it seems interesting.
I am only describing how things are, at lease to my understanding. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, just is. Actually, I see pluses and minuses to both “sides”. I’m sure this is much more complex than any of us can imagine since I’m sure software that could possibly do this easily may be proprietary and cost prohibitive to smaller businesses. Food for thought.
And exclude a large portion of possible customers??? Granted that group is shrinking but there are still plenty of people who do not do everything digitally.
I don’t get a Target flyer since I don’t get a newspaper. I look on the Target app to see the flyer. In the store, you have to go up to the counter to request a flyer if you want one. They aren’t just laying out for people to grab. I don’t think it is that far out of reach, especially with a lot more online shopping happening.
I’m not being deliberately argumentative, but I’m trying to take a vacation here. I’m trying to relax. I’ve had a tough year. But now I’ve got to worry about the finances and family circumstances of the people providing my vacation?
I don’t know how much my cabin steward gets paid. I don’t know what his or her personal circumstances are. I don’t know how much the compulsory tips he or she gets a share of add up to. I don’t know how many people he or she is financially responsible for. And nor should I have to know any of these things.
There is no argument that will convince me that it is my responsibility to worry about these things. It is the responsibility of the corporation who employs them and of the government which regulates that corporation.
The tipping system is transparently designed to reduce the tax burden that falls on corporations by turning customers into de facto employers. It stinks and no-one will ever persuade me otherwise.
I know that the US is the greatest country in the world but I think it might be possible that they’ve got this one wrong.
But if you are going to make me personally responsible for the household finances of Disney staff, I want to see their tax returns. Because while some of them may be making very poor money, I’ll wager some of them are making a lot more than me. Those $20 tips add up.
