Unnecessary whiny moaning (this thread is not for WDW old-timers)

It doesn’t happen so much on here, but does it bug anyone else when people who’ve been going to WDW for years moan about how awful HEA is and how much better Wishes was? Or how Soarin’ is terrible now, and the old version was so much better?

I never saw Wishes, but I do know that HEA was mind-blowingly impressive. It’s the most visually stunning outdoor show I’ve ever seen. It’s a world-class event.

Maybe Wishes was better (though if Hallowishes was anything to go by, I doubt it). But it’s almost offensive to we first-timers to say “the show you saw was rubbish: we saw one better and you’ll never see it, so you’re basically wasting your time”.

Same goes for Soarin’. I thought it was fantastic. I was annoyed with myself that I did it so late in my trip that I didn’t have the opportunity to do it again.

OK, unnecessary whiny moan over.


I do think it can put people off trying things. When I read “oh the old Star Wars fireworks were the best thing ever but the new ones are rubbish, don’t bother” I considered skipping them, but I actually really really loved them.

Also, I much prefer new Soarin.


Because I’ve become fully obsessed with WDW this site is not enough for me. I regularly check Lines, though I rarely contribute. There often seems to be a focus on negativity there that, a few weeks ago, had me wondering whether or not I should cancel my whole trip.

I am there about 20 times a day and it does seem negative at the moment, if Disney could at least sort their IT out that would help!

The reason for the complaining is two fold.

One, the fact is, the original Soarin’ WAS better. Now it is a glorified CGI fest.

But second, the hope is that WDW ultimately has spies to listen to the complaints and makes long-term changes to prevent such degradation of experiences in the future.

I honestly don’t think anyone thinks that. People complain because they are unhappy, end of. WDW isn’t struggling to attract visitors so they don’t care if some don’t like what they’ve done.

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WDW actually DOES have people whose job it is to check the pulse of folks and part of that includes “spying” on forums.

To me, complaining serves no purpose unless I had some reason to hope/believe there is an inkling of change that could come out of it.

Most likely nothing will. But I’m not complaining about Soarin’ because I want someone to feel bad that they didn’t get to experience something less than the original, but instead hope that Disney somehow magically hears such complaints that people notice these things and learn from them.

It occurs to me that the title of this thread is ambiguous. The “unnecessary whiny moaning” is mine. I’m the one doing the unnecessary whiny moaning.

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I’m not saying they don’t have spies. I’m saying I don’t believe, and when reading chat liners don’t appear to believe, that Disney give a crap if they like a change or not.

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Well consider me an eternal optimist then. An optimist who likes to whine about changes to rides. :slight_smile:

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Haha! I would consider myself an optimist too but also a realist.


Funny, I went on the new Soarin for the first time with my son’s girlfriend. I will admit that I loved the old version. When I went with her we sat in the C section. She thought it was the most magical thing she ever saw. We had to go back multiple times and we didn’t even sit in B until the 3rd ride. To her Soarin is even better than FoP- it is where she found that Disney magic . I think it is a lesson I will never forget.


I certainly think it’s entitled to be mentioned in the same sentence. I had that thought myself. Well, not “better” but “almost as good”.


I think many of us have a nostalgia vs. NEW STUFF battle going on when it comes to Disney, some of us just have longer timelines to compare to.

And I think with a longer the timeline, there my be a higher propensity (or just opportunity) for more intensified nostalgia that makes us defend the defunct. (Which is now my new band name.)

I like the new Soarin’ very much, but there is a part of me that misses the original version - akin, I think, to my missing the placing and resulting snap crackle and pop of a record needle when listening to music.

Do I like being able to bluetooth crystal-clear audio to my car stereo or home speaker? You bet. But I do miss the warmth of the old ways. (Probably why I love the intro to the Disney History Institute podcast.)

Of course, it also ties into an experience we may have had with the previous incarnations, which is a combination of time and place - e.g. seeing Wishes when kids were little or parents were there.

Plus the newness of the replacement is of course a factor - there have been several HEA-related chats where people say the story is lacking or non-existent. I heartily disagree - I don’t think I picked up anywhere near the entire thread of HEA’s “story” until I listened to it several times on my post-trip commute, then realized the story goes from recognizing possibilities to the importance of friendship, asking for help, realizing self-confidence, resulting in hope and realization.

If people haven’t taken time to re-listen to it, the depth may be encompassed by the boom booms and lighty lights.

When it comes down to it - we’re all here because we know that Disney feeling, and I think we’re all just at different distances down the path at any given time.


It’s just the same as people who go often, like at least once a year or more, saying things like DHS is a half day park.

That is only true if you either don’t want to see any of the shows, or hate Star Wars and therefore cross everything related off the plan etc etc.

I go once every 3 years or so. We usually do TSMM, Star Tours (several times), (GMR - rip :cry:), Indy, Muppets, Launch Bay (for around 90 minutes), OMD, a TS meal (sometimes QS), the Star Wars stage show following the March of the First Order, maybe another show, watch the Jedi Training, catch the street performers and Fantasmic. That is easily a full day to schedule, albeit not starting at rope drop. Often we’ll go back a second day, to redo things.

We used to also do the LMA show, Backstage tour and browse SOA, as well as meet and greets.

That said, there are a lot of fantastic rides that no longer exist (see above) And some that have changed, not always for the good. Discussing them keeps them alive. But I agree that moaning about it in other threads can be annoying.


@profmatt I absolutely get what you’re saying. My family has been going to WDW somewhat regularly for the last 24 years AND we are Disneyland locals/passholders. In fact, I just took the kids to DL yesterday just so we could ride Space Mountain before they remove the Star Wars overlay.

Yes, I agree, there are attractions and shows that were “better” before. But I don’t dwell on that and I would never say to someone to not waste their time because it’s not as good as it was before. For us, it’s similar for comparisons between DL and WDW. Yes, there are some major differences between similar attractions and I prefer some in DL over WDW and vice versa. BUT, it might not be the same for you! How would I know? I’m not you! I would never tell someone not to bother with Fantasmic at HS because it’s better at DL, because if you haven’t seen it at DL, it’s still pretty darn impressive at HS!

The same goes with restaurants. I can’t tell you how many times I get annoyed when I read someone’s post that says, “Food was inedible! Don’t waste your time!” and someone replies, “Thank you for the warning, I just cancelled my extremely hard to get reservation!” How would they know what it’s like until they try it.


I don’t mind others having differing opinions (which to me is what makes Disney so great - there is usually something for everyone!) but the extent some folks to go to tell you that your opinion is completely wrong is amazing at times. I get it, you aren’t a fan of HEA. That doesn’t make me wrong for thoroughly enjoying it! It was the one request my mom had for our June trip coming up - she wanted to make sure we saw HEA again…and she’s not a Disney person at all. Love it, hate it, that’s up to you. But don’t dismiss my view. (I started to reply to that thread in chat last week when this came up and ran far, far away from it…I like it better here lately :grinning::grinning:!


For me, what it comes down is that in the original Soarin’, everything we were watching, other than the final scene at Disneyland, was REAL. Actual footage of actual hang-gliding over places we’ve never seen or been to.

But the new version is MOSTLY CGI footage of places we’ve all seen a thousand times various forms. I mean, flying over an African Savannah would be cool if it wasn’t for all those computer-generated animals you threw in. And if you are going to have me fly around the Eiffel tower, do it for real.

Don’t get me wrong. I think the new Soarin’ is a fine and fun experience. We still do it every time. But it is a step backwards, not forwards. It really isn’t about nostalgia in this case. It is about giving me something that is fake in exchange for something that was real.


This is true of pretty much every hardcore fan base for everything. I am a super hardcore roller coaster enthusiast and have been for 20 years and you would be surprised how quickly opinions change for a ride once it closes. Basically, anything that and old-timer can/did do and a n00b will never get to do is instantly amazing because who wants to brag about the crappy ride they rode that now no one else will have to suffer through. For bands it’s “I liked them before they were cool, but now they’re too commercial” etc. etc. It may be the case that there is some older stuff that’s better than some newer stuff, but never to the degree that the “get off my lawn” crowd would have you believe.


To get back to the topic at hand, I know that my technique for coming to better understand a diverse viewpoint can come across to others as being difficult. But the truth is, I like to discuss a variety of sides, and will take a devil’s advocate position so that I can hear counter-arguments. It is a way to get a broader range of opinions. Later, I can synthesize those opinions and might find that my original view about the topic has changed.

So, for example, many people think AK is their favorite park. For me, it is my least favorite. But by saying so encourages others to explain WHY they think it is their favorite, which may include data I’ve not considered before. But others might think I’m just being hard-nosed. I’m not. :slight_smile: