By the end of this month, TouringPlan’s software will have the capability to forecast LL return times and make recommendations for you on your personalized touring plan. So if you’re able to get a solid plan incorporating G+ before your trip, that will take some stress off on the day of your visit.
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Actually it does impact others that you bought the $40K car in the same miniscule way that my buying Genie+ had you wait in a slightly longer line. If I wanted to buy that $40K car, but you got it, I either now cannot buy it, or maybe I have to spend a few bucks more to locate one since demand was higher thanks to you snagging that better car. I might have to pay $40,500 for the same car, so you cost me $500.
It is the same basic supply/demand issue - you impacted demand buying the nicer car and that has small ripple effects for the rest of the world. Just like how my buying Genie+ has a small ripple effect on the wait time of others…
Obviously the corollary is that demand for the $20K car is now lower - just like demand at Universal is lower because we went to Disney and bought Genie+ instead.
This probably isn’t ultimately true. There is a phenomenon in business where if two like businesses are built close by one another, BOTH businesses end up benefitting and doing better than if they had been build significantly further apart. This is why you’ll often see a Home Depot built within a mile or two of a Lowe’s. This is actually done intentionally because it drives up profits.
Universal grew by purposely being close to Disney. They continue to benefit, and there is a mutual benefit. People start tacking on time at one or the other. It is less an “instead of”, and more like adding on more than they would have. (Obviously not the case at the micro level, but at the macro level.)
I don’t see any of this being true with G+.
One could argue with the shows slowly coming back on line we are seeing added capacity there. I do think a decent amount of the hit to ride wait times are due to shows disappearing due to Covid and slowly coming back.
Your argument that DIS is just churning capacity in a lot of places has some truth. Although I do think there have been upgrades - no one rode Ellen so that’s a huge uptick in demand to go to Guardians. Galaxy’s Edge vs. Lights, Motor, Action! is a similar argument that it is much higher demand now even if capacity is similar or even less. It didn’t really matter that Ellen could swallow huge crowds if they never came…
I do think the biggest area Disney has cut back on is ride maintenance. Seems like a lot more stuff is breaking down now than it used to be. It also seems like they are doing a lot less work after hours which impacts guests more. Len gave the example on the pod of them training Jungle Cruise skippers during the day which took away a full boat from guests. Why couldn’t that training have been done before or after hours? Little things like that add up…
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I do agree with this…but I was talking about more recent decisions (or lack thereof) to increase capacity. The things that were done that actually increased capacity were based on decisions made close to a decade ago. Right now, we aren’t seeing anything on the horizon to increase capacity.
Well…more like a restoration of pre-existing capacity.
I was just thinking about this recently as well. With so much downtime, no one benefits…not even Disney! Like, the mess they end up with when a ride is down and now they have to deal with throngs of people who have ILLS (or whatever).
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Jim Hill had a recent story on his Podcast about how Cypress Gardens (in Winter Haven) benefited by Disney coming to Florida as it drove tourist traffic to central Florida and they would get extra business from the Disney tourist. Worked great for them until Universal came to town and Universal became the extra stop the Disney tourist made which eventually forced Cypress Gardens to close in '09. The site did become Legoland Florida eventually so all wasn’t lost.
If you don’t like the Universal analogy, then go with Cedar Point lines are shorter since we’re in Central Florida using Genie+. But you get the idea - if you’re at WDW, you’re not clogging up the lines at a different amusement park…
Yeah. That’s true on a bigger level. My place of work provides recreational vehicles. They talk, in meetings, about how we aren’t in competition just with other recreational vehicle manufacturers…but with ANYTHING that uses up the disposable income people have set aside for ANY type of recreation. So, in a sense…people going to Disney might result in decreased sales of our products!
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I agree with you. Unfortunately, the majority of people only worry about themselves, not others’ park experience. Honestly, I’m kind of on an amusement park boycott right now. The prices everywhere for every amusement parks have gotten nuts. They pay their employees poorly and many of them have cut park hours. I also hate express passes/ fast tracks/ whatever jump the line situation is out there.
If I can get cheap tickets to HersheyPark next year, we may go during the week in June, when there are hardly any crowds, so my youngest can finally ride the Great Bear. Other than that, it’s a no go. We thought about Universal next year, but paying almost $2000 for 3 days of tickets to do what we want to do is insane. So we are off to get a beach house in the Outer Banks. Looks like we are getting one for a week for about the cost, or less, of those Universal tickets.
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@ryan1 - while I agree with you in principle that in some ways we’d be better off with no “Fastpass” system, I don’t think it’s so dire.
As long as everyone is aware going in that there is a standby line and there is a Genie+ line, and that if you pay more money you can get in the Genie+ line and wait less, it’s not unfair to the standby line guests that they have to wait longer. They knew that going in. Patterns have stabilized enough now that anyone coming to WDW can get a sense for the value of Genie+ and make a decision accordingly. One person’s decision does not meaningfully impact that unless there is a change in the overall statistical pattern in the population.
That said, it is unfair to guests, like @mm1928wd who didn’t know about Genie+ (because it hadn’t been announced or fully implemented) when they booked their trip.
However, there is always going to be an implementation period where some people get screwed because things are different than what they expected. They could either never implement Genie+ or take their medicine, and they chose the latter option.
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As far as Disney is concerned, their G+ is not the worst option out there. I’m not in favor of it, but it is what it is. Unfortunately, other parks don’t have a system like this and are charging a crazy amount of money for front of the line access. I pay to get in the park and should have the option of accessing any open attraction, even if I stand in line. But there is another tier of people that can pay over $100/person to get in front of me in line (at some parks unlimited amount of times). I no longer get season passes to Hershey, one of the reasons being that wait times have doubled thanks to their fast track system was put in place. You can watch people get on an attraction, get off and immediately get back on again. It’s crazy. I can’t even believe the number of people paying for it either. You are more than doubling the cost of being in the park by buying into it.
I miss the days of all people waiting in the same line to ride an attraction. Everyone pays to get in and everyone is an equal in the park. This goes for any amusement park.
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We are kindred spirits.
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I’ve mostly skimmed this thread so I’m unsure if this has been covered in more detail: the focus of this trip is the 4th birthday?
This makes a difference. I’m assuming that the 5 adults are parents, grandparents and uncle. I’m also assuming, based on copious experience, that the adults are there primarily to share in and observe the birthday fun.
Having made numerous trips to WDW with toddlers of varying ages, I really can’t see how not having Genie+ or Lightning Lanes or even leaving many attractions unexperienced will detract from the child’s enjoyment.
Most especially with a 4 year old, going with the moment makes for the best memories, because it’s her memories and she’s operating thru her lens.
If she’s eager to rise and get going - do rope drop. If splashing about in a water feature looks more fun than Big Thunder Mtn, then that’s what she should do. Meet and greet Tink and leave Haunted Mansion for another time.
And for sure we’ve had the range of 4 yo reactions to Haunted Mansion.
The single most important part of a birthday trip for a 4 yo is tuning into what’s going on in that noggin and trying to go with that flow.
Yes, make park reservations, make a table service ADR every day if that works out - buffets preferred in our extended family because kids generally are on see-food diets.
Be prepared to spend one day at your resort recuperating from some sort of never-explained tummy trouble. Expect meal time naps. Check small feet often (like the length of Main Street) for blisters.
And have fun.
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We will be there 8/20-8/30 without G+.
We are rope dropping at least 1 of the 2 days that we will be in each park. If day 1 rope dropping MK is a total fail, then maybe I’ll change my mind. I am pretty committed though NOT to purchase anything aside from an ILL for ROTR if RD fails at HS.
I have been studying up with those TP Teaches videos so now maybe I am overconfident about my odds? 
I like a challenge 
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Blockquote So, each time anyone uses a LL, they are making the standby wait LONGER for others. Perhaps it is only a few seconds for any given person, but the more that use it, the more it adds up. So, you (generically, not specifically) end up paying money to DISNEY so that you can take time away from ME (generically, not specifically). I didn’t agree to you cutting in front of me. I’m not being compensated for YOU making MY wait longer. Disney profits.
Ryan I had almost the exact same conversation with my wife on our way back from our last trip. We had the most HORRID time at HS with our grandson without G+.
Question:
Aren’t we forgetting that each person who reads this post and decides against buying G+ just to be nice to others, will then instead take the SB line, and therefore will continue to make the wait longer for that one guest who had planned to take the SB line to begin with?
[Wow, this is the longest question I have ever asked. Hope it makes sense.]
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No. Well, yes…but only for the FIRST attraction. Every attraction after the first adds more time to the standby lines because that person is getting through several lines ahead of the SB guests.
Actually it’s:
- Add up all the attractions an average Genie+ person experiences
- Add up all the attractions an average Standby person experiences
- Adjust for attractions whose capacity was not limited at the time it was ridden (non-headliner rope drop, end of night, shows, parades)
- Take the delta
That’s how much the Standby person is being inconvenienced.
In theory, that could be zero, if the person ends up doing more shows, parades, etc. than usual but the same number of headliners as they would have without Genie+. (But we know that is not the case, on average.)
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Also, can someone be inconvenienced when they don’t care (as in they don’t know what they are missing or don’t mind missing it)?
I know plenty of people that go to the parks do only a few attractions, never ride headliners, etc and still say they had a great time.
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I don’t understand that.
Take the amount of time that a person with LL skips…that being the time differential between the LL wait and the SB wait. Let’s say they wait 5 minutes instead of 50. Then for that first ride, they aren’t adding anything overall to the line in a sense. But for every line after that they spend in a LL instead of SB for up to the differential (45 minutes) they are stealing time, in a sense, from those in Standby…adding to their waits in a way they wouldn’t be in Standby itself.
So, if a ride allows a rider or group of riders every 10 seconds, they would steal 10 seconds from those in Standby after the first ride. If there were 1000 people using G+ with an average of only three rides, that means each of those 1000 guests add 20 seconds to the wait of EVERYONE in those Standby lines EACH.
I’m maybe not quite as anti-Genie+ as @ryan1, but I’m really not a fan of the mindset a lot of people have that they absolutely must have it every day of their trip. One of the best changes Disney has made to G+ is forcing people to buy it a day at a time. At least now there’s a chance they’ll consider, “Hey, I’m rope dropping AK, leaving at noon, and spending the rest of the day at the resort. Do I really need it?” And the way people were freaking out when this change was announced was slightly disturbing.
I just think the default stance should be “I can have a great time without Genie+”, and then looking at what days it will actually add real value. If that ends up being every day, then fine. But at least try to seriously rationalize it instead of automatically FOMOing into it.
Separate queues are anti-egalitarian and morally indefensible, though, and anyone that uses a certain tool to maximize their Genie+ usage is basically a vile human being responsible for the collapse of civil society.
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