I understand the desire to be all P.C. these days (well, mostly), but I am having trouble with the decision to change Pirates of the Caribbean. Pirates are baddies. They are supposed to be. They always have been, and they still are in real life. The fact they they would have the audacity to auction off women is exactly what makes them pirates. To water down the experience into something more P.C and less P.O.T.C. is really LESS P.C.
With the changes made this time (and previous changes), it is turning Pirates into anyone wearing an eye patch. Men chasing women turns into men chasing food that the women are making, and now auctioning women turns into auctioning chickens? These aren’t pirates any longer.
And now to have a female pirate? That’s appealing to very modern sensibilities, but not at all realistic to the era that POTC is supposed to embody.
Even when I was a kid, it was that auctioning of women scene that, to me, showed me how bad these pirates really were.
True, but they were vastly outnumbered. (I read something like handful out of about 6000 pirates were female.) Most ships had rules that explicitly disallowed woman on their ships, and a couple of the more famous female pirates had to disguise themselves as men.
Setting aside that point for a moment, I’m still bothered by the watering down of the pirates. I certainly don’t want my children (well, if they were still younger) to think being a pirate is in any way cool or okay. They rape, steal, and kill, then and now. Pirates still exist today and not much has changed in that regard.
You’re not making sense. You don’t want pirates watered down(or “PC” as you called it), you don’t want your kids thinking pirates are “cool or okay”, but you want to go on a ride (designed specifically for kids) with “mean men pirates” who are the HEROES of the ride.
Let’s just cut to the core of the issue here: You want it like how it was when you were a kid. That’s fine, not everyone likes every change. I personally am not a fan of the extreme focus of Jack Sparrow as opposed to a general pirate theme, but ultimately it is set as is and no amount of compalining is going to change that.
It’s just a theme park ride and thinking this will influence life choices of your kids is a little optimistic. Or really pessimistic of your parenting skills and/or their ability to separate fiction from reality.
So what exactly are you hoping for in this thread? There isn’t going to be some nostalgia movement that “fixes” Disney’s rides.
Well, no. You’re completely wrong regarding my thoughts/feelings.
These changes made recently make pirates nothing more than silliness. Before, they were portrayed NOT as heroes at all, but as a mixture of things, including the ugly truth.
And it is my parenting skills that makes me question these changes entirely. I care about what my kids see/hear. I would never let them play pirates, etc, because it undermines our very values. The old ride would show that pirates were not good people. Now, it shows pirates as, what, exactly?
What’s the point of this thread? Same as every other thread here. Discussing all things Disney and our individual thoughts/feelings about them.
Ok that might be a bit of a miscommunication on my part. My bad. I’m using the word “hero” in the ‘protagonist’ sense more than the ‘Superman’ sense. As they were never arrested, never defeated, and no consequenses whatsoever of their actions throughout the ride, they’re considered “heroes/protagonist” of the ride.
That aside, why was it ok for the kids to ride the ride before? Again, there were zero consequences for their deeds before (or now), so why is the “less pc” version somehow more of a cautionary tale? Also, it’s not like Disney World is known for it’s historical accuracy.
ah yes, I forgot about that scene. Definitely still there. Good call
Ok, so there is one consequence, though at the same time, you don’t know who their captors are really (the movie shows it’s the British, but the ride doesn’t get that detailed) and that’s fairly early in the ride and the end of the ride(or story) has pirates (or now, Jack) sitting in a room full of riches.
Because, as I mentioned, before you came away from the ride realizing that pirates were bad guys, whether or not the pirates got away with what they were doing wrong. (Although, as Joe mentioned, there was the pirates locked in jail scene, but I don’t recall off hand where in the ride that actually takes place.)
I don’t need the ride to show that bad guys always get proper justice. But I do think portraying them as bad guys help put them in proper perspective. As I said, the scene with the auction was, even to my childhood sensibilities, very key to seeing these as bad guys.
Despite all of this, by NOT portraying them as bad guys, it sells more merchandise, of course. But that’s it. You have more and more kids pretending to be pirates as if that’s a good thing. (I differentiate this as when kids pretend to be pirates but as acting them out as the bad guys, much in the way someone will have to be the bad guy in cops and robbers, or superheroes, etc.)
I suppose I can put it more like this: The previous incarnations left talking points open. Conversations could be had using the ride itself to show how pirates are not good people, and talk about pirates today, etc. But the new version kind of just portrays them as just greedy, silly folks. I’m left with kids wondering why I don’t want them pretending to be pirates, etc, without the items in the ride that would justify that to their younger minds.
In the end, I know there is nothing to be done. What is done is done. I’m lamenting the change…but not for nostalgia’s sake.
That would be a matter of opinion and circumstance. In our case, we have never allowed our kids to dress up as bad guys, but there are times when kids play-act that someone has to take on the role of the bad guy. Even in such cases, though, it is in recognition of them being bad. Kids dressing up as pirates because it is “fun and cool”, however, can be, to me, problematic.
Huh. Don’t go on a Caribbean Disney cruise, then, because there is a Pirate night where Mickey and gang tell all the kids (potential crew members) what a pirate wants most is “treasure”. The audience, filled with kids has to repeat it. What fun to be on Captain Mickey’s pirate crew, dancing a jig, saying Arrr and wanting, most of all, treasure.
I agree it’s a matter of opinion. I personally can’t imagine what possible difference it makes if a child thinks a pirate is a fun thing to dress as. They’re not going to grow up to be one, and at some point they will find out that pirates are bad guys. Same as they grow up to find out fairies don’t exist, even though they dressed as one when they were 4.
In terms of the ride, I didn’t think it needed changing but I’m not that bothered about it one way or another.
I’m a bit confused about the not dressing as pirates thing, too. Kids play cops and robbers, aliens, dress as the baddies in Star Wars and other franchises. I still think of this as healthy play. A lot of the time it just gives a format for people to play-act and pretend “fight” and generally run around and get out energy. We have heroes and antiheroes (both as protagonist) in nuanced media as adults. Why do kids only get to have one dimentional outlets? Let’s face it, most boys would just prefer to play fight regardless of who they’re pretending to be.