Fast Pass changes at WDW! Loopholes no more

Walt Disney World Other
33

I do understand. Lets take FOP, which is the hardest FP to get. If you were trying to get it and someone else who had no intention of staying was why you couldn’t get it, yes you would be upset.

The situation with the ADRs and people abusing that system caused Disney to make changes.
The situation with people hiring someone who had disabled so that they could get to the front of lines, Disney changed that.
The situation with people using the resort mugs from previous vacations caused Disney to make changes to that.
This situation with people doing what they were has caused Disney to change it.

You are looking at it in the way you are because you feel it is poorly written, however, it is in black and white, not Oh it doesn’t expressly state it the way I want it to.
If you come to a crosswalk, and it changes from the Walk to Do Not Walk, does that mean its ok to Run or Crawl across because it doesn’t list it. No, it means you do not cross. People take advantage of things and I can prove it. You didn’t see this type of behavior listed or talked about anywhere on this site. People would whisper or secretly tell others about the loophole they found. If it was not the case, then why didn’t you see it suggested as a way to get FP?
Are there ways to have 2 dining reservations at the same time? Remember that you can only have dining reservations no closer than 1 hour apart. The answer is actually yes, however it isn’t right to do it and I won;t share how it could be done. It happened to me on more than one occasion and I made sure that it was cancelled right away and even contacted Disney.
I could tell all sorts of people but you see, that would mean that I was abusing the system and doing things that I;m not supposed to do. With that said, I don’t tell anyone how to get 2 dining reservations at the same time or closer than 1 hour apart and I won’t do it. I let Disney know there is a problem and that it needs fixed.

Sorry, but I do not see it the way you do, and I think you can see from most of the posts, that people don’t see it the way you do. You believe what you want to on it, and see it the way you want to see it. As for me and most of the people on here that follow the rules, it is a good thing that is being done.

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34

You’re taking this far too personally. For me, it’s just a mental exercise. It’s fun.

But now that you have decided to call into question my character, when all I’m doing is advancing an argument, I feel I have to end the conversation. Have a good night, and a great time when you visit Disney!

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That is fine that you want to call an end to it, and i am fine with that.

I never called into question your character. If you think that is what I was doing, I am sorry.

36

Except the rules do say that you can book FPs at 30 days. It then says that those staying onsite can book FPs at 60 days for the length of their stay (up to 14 days).

It specifies it for those not staying onsite. So booking them at 60 days and not staying onsite is breaking them, isn’t it?

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37

Does staying mean sleeping? Or does staying mean paying? I still contend that Disney (or any hotel operator) does not care if you are sleeping in the room you paid for.

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This all makes for a fascinating read.

Firstly, is there any evidence this has actually happened. I’ve seen one post here that noted a warning they’d had about cancelling a reservation, but that’s it and apparently that was a message seen in other circumstances before.
Besides that I’ve seen absolutely no evidence on any of the other forums that this is actually more than a rumour. Has anyone else?
Edit: Just had a clear confirmation it has changed on our very own forums but waiting to see the actual impact on leading reservations rather than outright cancellation.

Secondly, while I love the Disney experience I find people’s desire to defend what is clearly a cut-throat money-making machine with such indignation quite amazing (I’m mostly talking about the other boards, TP’s lovely on the whole).
It borders on religious zeal at times.
Disney took $20.3 billion from their parks last year and made $4.5 billion profit. That’s $55 million revenue a DAY.
They increased their park parking charges TWICE last year, a 25% hike in a year, that’s 23% above inflation, and introduced charging for the luxury of parking your own car at a hotel you’re paying hundreds of dollars a night for. And this is just the tip of the iceberg as many will know.
But God forbid anyone dares to find ways through their deliberately opaque and vague rules to make the most of the money they spend there.
I’m glad they are closing this loophole, if they are. To me booking then deliberately cancelling was always the wrong side of the line. But I’m not going to condemn anyone who didn’t feel the same. The only tactics I’m happy to condemn are those that involve outright lying such as Rider Swap and DAS scamming.
Otherwise, I’m all for loving Disney, but also working my butt off to find any advantage I can get to make the most of the thousands I’m spending with them, and help anyone else who cares to educated and research to do the same.
Let’s be very clear, Disney is ‘The Man’ and I’m going to love them, and stick it to them!

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39

I love that you said this.
About a dozen years ago I first found Disboards. I was both intrigued and horrified by the vehemence spouted by some of the Disney apologist party over there. It took me a few months before I had the guts to even create a username. Within a few posts, when I somehow outted myself as an off-siter, I started getting skewered. I distinctly remember telling my DH that it seemed like a religion for some of those posters. Though I’ve been a member for over a decade I have a low post count because it can be scary!

The bottom line is until they make it impossible to utilize a work around there will be people who employ the work around for all the reasons you’ve mentioned.

@Pod I love your description - they are in the business of pleasing stockholders, I am in the business of pleasing my family. I might do the whole on-property thing if it were not astronomically expensive for a family my size. But then again, maybe not. I didn’t do it when it was just one child, either…

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40

Let’s be careful with the use of the word “allowed”.

That word can have two different connotations.

There is what is “allowed”, as in, what you can away with because there is nothing explicitly preventing you or diallowing it.

Then, there is what is “allowed”, as in, what the intention of the existing rules are.

I have a hard time believing that anyone actually believes Disney’s rules were set up to “allow” (in the second sense) people to book a throwaway room for gaining 60 day FPP access. It may be allowed in the first sense, but it is fairly clear based on the rules they DO have in place that it was never MEANT to be allowed.

I think the struggle people are having with this is the ethics of it, not the “legality” of it. The fact that Disney is now explicitly enforcing this without having an explicit RULE suggests that it was NEVER “allowed” in the second sense at all.

Now, as far as the defense of Disney…I’m not sure that it matters. A business has every right to make as much money as they can. If people are willing to pay, they will keep doing it. Is that their fault? Are they evil for it? Nope. Do I wish DIsney were more affordable? Yes. Or, well…maybe. Or perhaps not. Because if it is TOO affordable, more people go. More people go, it is more crowded. More crowded, you can do less. Further, without them bringing extra money, they can’t invest in future improvements/experiences that draw us all in and make us want to go back.

So, it is a love/hate relationship really. I hate that going to Disney drains my bank account. At the same time, love draining my bank account for a good Disney trip!

Anyhow, if I start down a path of justifying taking advantage of a company such a Disney through loopholes and such, it soon becomes a slippery slope. If Disney “deserves it” then who else does? How does one decide who deserves it and who doesn’t? It becomes all quite subjective.

I’ve put a great deal of thought into this because the idea of a throwaway was, in fact, tempting to me for a while as well. It took some level-headed discussion and thinking about it to come to this. I also get that those who have done it don’t want to feel “guilty” of anything. But I think that just because one can “get away with it” doesn’t mean it was supposed to be allowed.

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41

Not on strict reading. Stating a true affirmative doesn’t mean the negative is false. It’s like saying “In Denver visitors will have blue skies.”. It doesn’t mean that if you leave Denver, you leave blue skies. For that to be true, the statement should be “Only in Denver is the sky blue” or “You MUST be in Denver to see blue skies.” There’s no Only or Must in the wording from Disney.

Similarly, the fact that off-site guests only have 30 days doesn’t explicitly exclude anyone else from making FP arrangements then. That’s like saying “Visitors to Seattle can expect rain.” Well, it rains in Denver, too. One statement is not related to the other. We put them together in our minds, but they are completely separate statements.

Furthermore, the gold standard is what’s in the Terms & Conditions of one’s room agreement. Fastpasses aren’t even listed!! I encourage everyone to read the fine print. Disney basically can change anything at anytime for any reason. They are deliberately opaque about this and many other issues for a reason- it’s less trouble for them if they change their policies.

And finally, there is NO language anywhere, as I am making or reviewing my on-site reservation that mentions 30 day FP for onsite guests. No. Where. I wouldn’t even know that’s the new “policy” that people say I’m subject to if I cancel my leading reservation. But I’m not subject to it. We visitors are literally making up a rule that Disney doesn’t have, by linking two statements that are neither linked semantically or in practice.

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Also, sometimes I kick the hornets nest just for fun. This is one of those times. :wink:

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If you think that’s fun, I’m worried about you! :wink:

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Now don’t get me talking about analogies and metaphors, you’ll be sorry you did.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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45

My teacher always told me that an analogy is when you use the word “like” and a metaphor is when you use the word “is”.

I like analogies. (See. That’s an analogy! My teacher said so!)

A metaphor is nice, too. (See! That’s a metaphor!)

What I find tricky, however, is a “mixed metaphor”, which is, I presume, when you use “is” more than once.

A metaphor is nice if it is said nicely. (See…that’s a mixed metaphor, but they can be tricky!)

:crazy_face:

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46

But your metaphors aren’t nice. Not as metaphors. They might be quite charming and kind as individual nouns, however. :smile:

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And just because Disney does not explicitly say you can’t make FPs 60 days out for those not staying on Disney property, doesn’t mean you can or should use throwaway rooms or book rooms you intend to cancel. And it doesn’t mean it is policy or intentionally permitted by Disney. No one is being criminally charged or kicked out of Disney for doing this. Disney is probably seeing an effect on the bottom line and hearing complaints from customers/guests about the practice. A loophole that has been exploited is being fixed, hopefully. One of the things that is sad to me is that we all know anytime Disney does updates to the MDE, it creates a mess. So this is affecting people in more ways than one.

And I agree that it’s more of an ethical situation and decision.

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(Oh, great. @Alewis678, here, is trying to keep us “on topic”. Such a spoil sport!!!)

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I was already typing before you added your comment. Haha!

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And I will go to my grave believing fully that a hotel doesn’t care an iota if you pay for the room and not sleep there. Whether they explicitly say that or not.

If anything I think these conversations may intrigue more guests to try leading reservations.

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51

I agree. It’s a win-win for them, they get their money and don’t have to do any cleaning or upkeep.

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52

I agree. In fact, I expect “leading reservations” to become more and more common among on-site guests as more people learn about them. Maybe not for years, but down the road, I think WDW will do something about on-site leading reservations for later on-site stays.

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