One last point about climate change — but it is Disney-related.
Yes, I am aware of the potential charge that I am a massive hypocrite because I have in the past flown 4,500 miles each way, business class, to vacation in Orlando. And that I’m planning on doing so again.
Such a charge is well-made. And I do wrestle with the issue. And do intend to cut down significantly the number of transatlantic crossings I make. Even perhaps to zero. If the world were working together I would want to play my part. Even if it’s not, I don’t want to have to condemn myself as a hypocrite.
I know some child bearing women thought there was some possible danger, but I don’t know what it is supposed to be since I don’t think that has ever been a concern with other vaccines?
I don’t think all the discussion about people thinking the government is implanting chips is true? If that is a true concern those people must have much more interesting lives than me.
I don’t understand why you’re blaming Trump for people not getting vaccinated when most of the population wasn’t eligible until Biden was in office? And Biden is still in office?
I am not trying to turn this political at all. I just feel like the blame lies much more on conspiracy theories and social media and people’s inability to discern truth from what they want to believe. My MIL wrote today with yet more conspiracy theories: Biden has 3 doppelgängers, Trump masterminded all of this (which I don’t get since she’s a Trump fan?), JFK is still alive, the vaccine is poison, etc. It makes me bonkers. I can’t even dialogue with her anymore. My husband is a saint for dealing with her these days.
In Trump’s defense, he did get the vaccine and he did tell people to get it, and he did tout it as an achievement of his administration (Project Warp Speed). Republican leadership has been calling on him lately to continue to encourage people to get vaccinated, because he is one of the few people who can get through to them.
It is possible that, in my rage, I become somewhat incoherent. Or, at least, confused.
Trump didn’t take COVID seriously, he was — at best — unhelpful on the subject of masks, peddled ludicrous nonsense about injecting bleach into yourself, which (some) people believed, and lied a lot.
In his role as former president, elder statesman, he could spend his time now encouraging his supporters to get vaccinated, rather than rambling incoherently — something about which I know, er, something — about how he’s the real president.
It’s not just one thing. Reflecting on it, I think I’m seeing 6 main common threads in vaccine hesitancy/resistance. Individuals rely on one or a combination of these threads.
People that would really prefer to just ignore anything that disrupts their groove (this group will likely respond to employer or participation vaccination mandates as the path of least resistance)
People that give all information equal weight so they don’t know what to think (this is a group reachable by trusted sources, such as their personal doctor, friends/family, etc, unless they’ve picked someone specific to primarily rely on that is misleading them)
People that are susceptible to confirmation bias (they establish a position and only believe data sources that confirm their position)
People that no longer trust any information source so default to inaction
Conspiracy theorists (they get a buzz from thinking they know things no one else does so they can’t resist going deeper into the rabbit holes)
People that resist being told what to do regardless
Thinking about acquaintances I know, they seem to fall into one of more of those camps.
At the same time he downplayed the seriousness of COVID and touted unproven and possibly dangerous remedies along with incoherent “ideas” on how to deal with it.
Hardly a clear and direct acknowledgment that vaccines are the answer. Any positive words he said were in the guise of his own political gain.
I strongly suspect He does not continue to speak positively about the vaccine, even at the behest of his own party, because it no longer has any political benefits for him.
The reasons I hear from friends/family for not getting the vaccine?
-it is experimental.
-said person reacted once to a flu shot, so she doesn’t do shots any more.
-this is just like the flu, and said person does not get the flu shot, so won’t get this one.
-it microchips you (well, this person recently had a change of heart and got the vaccine!)
-covid is over, so I don’t need to get it (formally was that it was experimental, now has evolved to that he has other medical issues so he doesn’t want to, even though the doctor said it was ok to get it).
I will be honest, it exhausts me. This is mostly extended family. We are travelling next week to the USVI for a family wedding of said family. Some are just realizing now there is a real covid issue there. I am so glad we rented our own house with our own beach away from everyone else!
They had covid and have antibodies. They are compliant to rules and caring of others, especially when reason to believe there is elevated risk.
(I understand what is out there at this point regarding natural immunity vs vaccine regarding delta.)
My initial hesitancy:
Faith-based concern over the use of fetal cell lines in testing process.
Yes, I understand that the fetal cell lines have been derived for decades from the same abortion, which was not performed for this purpose, and that it’s morally sound to get vaccinated. I came to that conclusion when I was ready, but I spent time thinking about it, because that issue is vitally important to me.
In any event, please do not dismiss all the unvaccinated as selfish and stupid morons. It’s unfair. And they don’t owe anyone any explanation for their stance if they are following laws and rules. Some will never agree to the vaccine. Let it be. Try to encourage or recommend and definitely provide the facts, but do not force. Yes they will remain a higher risk to themself and others, but don’t belittle them. It doesn’t solve anything.
And as a republican, I can defend some things Trump said and did, and others I can’t or won’t. No matter how much people obsess about hating him at all costs until the end of time or what his personal/political motives were, he pushed hard for vaccines, and has made several post-presidency comments still encouraging people to get them. That’s fine if people want to say, “he doesn’t mean that” or “but he also said THIS” (I am well aware of all the real and perceived problems with him), but I’m just stating facts and don’t want to argue much about Trump these days. Biden has been in charge for 200 days. It’s his show, and he’s ultimately accountable now.
I would feel a lot more generous if this were true. The unvaccinated by choice that I know personally absolutely ignore every sign that says “masks optional if vaccinated”. I honestly can’t think of an exception. They only follow the rules if forced to.
If you were to put a percentage on it, how many unvaccinated do you think are following those rules where posted by businesses?
I don’t know, and I wouldn’t know, because I don’t scope out what everyone else around me is doing, and I don’t know everyone’s vax status. I don’t want to assume anything. So I will defer to others who have more knowledge and evidence of those things and can make a fair judgment. Not my job to make or enforce the rules. Those that do are subject to criticism. But rules should be followed.
Fair enough. That’s an important theme through these threads, that a decent portion of our view, or at least how passionate we are about it, is shaped by personal experience in our community. We all know anecdotes are not statistically significant, but they do affect us and how we look at things.
We are all free to live in the states and communities of our choosing and send our kids to the schools of our choosing (more or less). That’s a great thing.
I wish I was as eloquent as this. This is how I want to end my post.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot since @sanstitre_has_left_the_building posted last night and again this morning before getting on to read new posts.
I appreciate that most of the answers are covering the wide world of the unvaccinated and not pinpointing individuals reasons. I’m also aware that the issue of the unvaccinated really gets people’s heckles raised.
I am only going to be able to speak for myself because there it literally noone I know in real life who has given a second thought about vaccine, so I won’t be generic.
I sympathise with the ire the unvaccinated raise in some of you and I will try not to make you more angry. I won’t provoke because thing’s about the whole pandemic have made me just as angry, albeit some completely different things from you, so I do sympathise.
The lockdowns were a positive thing for me. If it weren’t for the news about illnesses and deaths, I would’ve called it idyllic. It showed me what was important in my life and that I had been living a way that put some of those things in low priority. With that realisation, the thought of anyone in my household getting Covid made me sick. I battened down the hatches and shielded us from the dangers outside.
Now, I know that everyone is different (I now know just how different I seem to be from my immediate society), but apart from my sister and one of my friends, I wasn’t aware of anyone else who felt like that. Everyone else I was surrounded by just didn’t seem as scared and just wanted out to mix and mingle.
My first problem was when these people started to break the rules to do so. It angered me then and still angers me to this day, much as I imagine the unvaccinated anger you.
Obviously rules relaxed as time passed, but I still seethed at what was going on around me. Everyone was weeks ahead of the rule changes. ('Oh we’re allowed to meet two households outside starting next week? The neighbors literally have 5 households in the garden right now). Apart from my sister and friend mentioned above, everyone else was acting like Covid wasn’t a thing and it scared the heck out of me. These people were just dangerous in my eyes. I avoided them physically, and electronically and lived for most of the lockdowns without even opening my blinds in the mornings because I couldn’t handle seeing the craziness going on outside my window.
Lockdowns came and went and yet I still didn’t relent. I wasn’t having any of us exposed. The second (and subsequently third) wave proved me right. It was too soon to let out guard down.
During the hug-a-granny Christmas season, we still met relatives outdoors and didn’t have anyone in our house.
Then the vaccines started.
It didn’t bother me at first because I didn’t think I would even be offered one. My parents and elderly relatives got theirs and it concerned me a little, but for their ages, I was really only worried about their initial reactions to it and they were all fine, so all good.
Then suddenly people my age started getting their blue letters with vaccination appointments through. I was not ready for this. At this point, having spent little over a year ostracizing myself from society and taking precautions within the house to stop Covid getting in, the thought of having to inject something related to it into my body was terrifying.
Now, I’m not a stupid uneducated person. I know that the vaccine won’t give you Covid. I know that it trains your body how to deal with a real infection. I know that vaccines are generally safe, blah blah blah.
But THIS vaccine. THIS virus. THIS pandemic. They all had so many unknowns. Why does one person die, one person gets life changing dialysis and one person doesn’t even know they caught it? Autoimmune was the only feasible answer I could find to this question and the stinger is that you don’t know you have an autoimmune condition until you know. How do I know that the vaccine won’t trigger an autoimmune response? How do I know if I will be one of the people in the blood clot statistics? How do I know if the vaccine looks safe now, but 6 months/a year or more down the line vaccinated start having heart issues/breathing problems/anything that affects the quality of life that it so bloody precious?
Yes, the answer to all these things was always that it’s unlikely. Unlikely doesn’t mean that it won’t happen.
So finally, my blue letter arrived. I lost the plot.
I cried and cried and cried about this horrible decision. I didn’t want to have the vaccine yet. It was too soon. However, I sure as hell didn’t want Covid. I was safe in my bubble. I only met trusted people outside and didn’t feel like I was at risk of getting or spreading.
The anger kicked in tenfold. I hated everyone who has caused me to have to get this injection because of their inability to entertain themselves within the parameters of a pandemic.
It was literally my lowest point in the pandemic.
I rearranged my appointment 4 times.
I eventually went to my appointment for two reasons;
Because the country was opening up again, my DH was going to HAVE to travel again for work and I would be at higher risk of getting Covid as a result.
Duty to my community. The community I currently hated with a passion for putting me in this position in the first place. The community who didn’t have the balls to stay the eff home when they needed to.
It was a hard decision.
I was worse than useless the day before my appointment. The day of, I steeled myself for it and went. The nurse asked me if I was well and I broke down in front of her. I cried the rest of the day with fear and regret. I’ve had a couple of spells since, where I’ve got so upset at the thought of what I’ve done. The second appointment wasn’t as bad. The damage is already done, eh?
So, what’s bothering me now, is that I wonder what is the point of all these rants about the unvaccinated? There’s nothing that anyone here has said that makes me feel better about my decision. On the contrary. As a vaccine hesitant person, I feel hated on, despite the fact that I have done everything in my power to not get and spread Covid. Probably more than most of the people hating on the unvaccinated.
So, I know that this isn’t going to satisfy anyone, but I feel unheard and wanted to say it. I would appreciate if the usual liner kindness continues and my post isn’t picked to shreds.
Enter @Tall_Paul1 's quote above to finish on a coherent and less crazy tone.
