Coronavirus Outbreak: Part 3

I am wondering if many lines updated their ventilation systems.

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What is the current definition of Long Covid? In some places (recently Dr. Klotman) it says symptoms 4 weeks or more and in other places I’ve seen more than 90 days. One feels like not much of a big deal and the other more significantly concerning. At 4 weeks I don’t think I had my sense of smell fully returned - and it seems that would technically qualify as long covid. (Even now there are some smells that “smell like covid” to me.) I wasn’t paying close attention but even the fatigue lasted at least nearly 4 weeks by the first time. My point is that if you use 4 weeks as the measure, many more people will recover from Long Covid. If you use 90 days, things look a lot more concerning. I’m not arguing that some people have life altering effects post-covid. I just want to make sure everyone is using the same measuring stick.

I think people are traveling and generally ignoring covid. I’ve heard too many stories of the things people are doing to get around covid testing requirements to get home at the end of a vacation. A family member found a doctor who has never had a positive covid test to test his family for the return trip. Another friend even said that if you were traveling the day after the Scotland tour he took, the tour company would furnish you with a negative test. (Which is really wild since he said maybe half the bus had covid, and he turned up positive upon returning home.)

So, I think it’s wise to currently avoid cruises and tour groups if you want to avoid covid. :woman_shrugging:

Meanwhile, we just spent a week at a scout camp. Today is day 4 since we left the camp. No AC so lots of big fans and big screen windows - I guess we will soon know if that was enough!

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We have ordered our first doses of vaccine for the 6mo-4yo set! I am so excited! I’ll be holding an educational session with my certified vaccinators this afternoon :smiley:

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Doubtful. I honestly don’t think many places did. Until stuff like that is mandated by some governing body most businesses will not do that.

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Our two boys (8 and 9) got boosters this weekend. No side effects to speak of, outside of a bit of redness around the injection site for the older one. They didn’t have any negative reactions to either of the first two vaccine shots, either.

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Thought I remember reading they upgraded them - Royal Caribbean claims 12-15 air changes per hour which is comparable to an airplane - but the big unknown is if that’s enough to compensate for the crowding in public areas like the theater, dining room, and bars.

I’d love to see stats on how many tested positive by the end of a voyage but the cruise lines aren’t being forthcoming with that data. CDC has a dashboard but I don’t think it’s very useful b/c the threshold is only 0.3% of pax (orange) and almost all cruise ships are in that category. But you have no idea if it’s 0.5%, 3%, or 30%.

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I did read about the RCCL upgrades (that is the line I have booked) but I also did read on Twitter this morning I got that RCCL seems to be the only one that has published this info?

I found a similar statement for Celebrity, their sister line and also for Princess. Carnival and Norwegian claim enhanced ventilation but don’t provide number of air changes per hour.

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I’m confused. I just told some family that the covid incubation period is 14 days and several of them came back at me with that the CDC now considers it to be only 5 days. Is that true? I remember that quarantine was reduced to 5 days but i still don’t consider us free from worry until 14 days have passed since an exposure. I’ve been unable to find this info on the CDC website.

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I was supposed to have been on Majestic Princess. I read a lot about the outbreaks of covid on cruises. I was pretty scared but really wanted to go with my group. I wasn’t so scared of being sick at this point but more worried about being quarantined in a cruise cabin and then maybe more later in Vancouver. I am thinking about rebooking for next summer perhaps because I really want to do that itinerary.

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This is my understanding too.

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The incubation period can be up to 14 days, but the majority of people turn up positive within 5 days.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/testing-overview.html#:~:text=-%20The%20incubation%20period%20for,testing%20at%20least%20weekly.

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You people still droning on about COVID?

Here in the UK, we’ve moved on. We have polio now.

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I believe this is due to so many families forgoing routine vaccination schedules during the pandemic

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Polio?!

:woman_facepalming:

The consequences on debating the covid vaccine seem to have consequences beyond covid.

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My DD24 is currently finishing up a 3 week trip to Mozambique. She had to get a polio booster (among several other vaccinations plus malaria prophylactics) to go because they have had a new case this spring.

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Nothing much surprising in yesterday’s variant update. What will be very interesting is whether the NE has another surge as BA4/5 take hold.

It is rather alarming to me that the new CDC levels are actually more helpful in differentiating what is happening around the country than the old CDC levels. Because pretty much the whole country is on fire by our previous definitions. But now that’s just a typical Wednesday.

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There really isn’t one and they aren’t. There’s no universally accepted definition yet.

It’s hard to define for a couple of different reasons.

First, it’s not one thing. Some people have damage directly done by the acute infection or lingering symptoms from that. Some people have the type of symptoms that frequently occur after any length of time spent bed bound and/or in the ICU. But there’s some other factors at play they are still trying to sort that are also very significant…people that have symptoms that seem not directly related to what would be expected from an acute respiratory infection, and in some cases these symptoms may suddenly appear a month or two after the infection. The two leading theories seem to be uncleared viral reservoir somewhere in the body and some sort of immune disfunction (and there could be instances of either or both theories). In many cases, dysautonomia seems at play, and there has been some pattern of micro-clots that are only picked up on very highly specialized testing that only a handful of places worldwide can run.

Second, this is all so disjointed and with the possible gap between infections and symptoms manifesting, it’s really hard to sort out symptoms from background noise. Let’s say someone that’s never had vertigo before suddenly develops it. Is that related to the Covid infection they had 6 weeks ago? The Covid vaccine booster they had 2 weeks ago? The two combined? Completely unrelated? These sorts of things have definitely increased, and the increases started prior to vaccines being available, so at a population level, Covid is definitely increasing certain ailments. But trying to identify who specifically has Long Covid vs something else and quantify it is challenging.

Third, without established bio markers, Long Covid is largely diagnosed by excluding other ailments. The microclots angle is a fairly recent development, but the degree and scope of correlation needs to be established.

The big question is what happens with subsequent infections? Does Long Covid become less, more, or the same likelihood? There are definitely people that seemed fine after their first infection but not later ones, so acquired immunity is not robust protection. The estimate of protection from vaccination is estimated to be anywhere from 15-50%. (Of course, waning and boosters complicates that as well.)

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Highlights from CDC’s current overview.

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