Copper Creek Increase


#1

I just received an email from DVC telling me to add points now since they are projecting an increase to $210 a point for Copper Creek in June? That’s a pretty big jump ($22 a point).

I opened the email because I was interested in the subject line : add on before this resort sells out

Can someone help me? When I purchased they said I could add on any time in the future. They said they guaranteed me the same use year. If the resort sells out if that no longer true?

Thanks!


#2

I just did a quick check and I got the same email. Ugh. That is a big jump.
I thought we could add on too. It may just be worded in a misleading (to seem urgent) way.

Did you email your salesperson? I’m interested in anything you find out.


#3

I did not because after I closed they switched my guide. You know, last month when I was there I may have considered it but honestly I am looking for a resort that I can hope will be easier to book at 11 months. I have read posts on other boards that 7 month studios were not available anywhere. I looked at Cooper Creek 11 months out and I am afraid that may be as challenging as December. If I go to the trouble of trying to book exactly at 11 months, I want a hope I can get it.


#4

I’m trying to understand the allure of DVC from a financial perspective. So… $210/point. If you want to go for one week a year you would need about 100 points, so that’s $21,000. I could rent a weeks worth of points for about $1500. Doing the math, the “break even” point comes at around 14 years. BUT… you would accrue upwards of $30,000 in monthly maintenance fees (assuming it’s $200/month, which is what I think I heard someone quote. That would be another 20 years of $1500/year to cover that (even if it was half that, it would still be 10 years. So that means the “break even” point is between 24 and 34 years. And even after that, the annual maintenance fees end up costing as much or more than renting points for a week.

This makes no logical sense to me; could someone please tell me where my math is off? @BGK - if you are reading this, I’d love to hear your take (knowing your opinion of DVC)…


#5

odd, I didn’t get such an email. Even got a recent update from my agent regarding buying more points, but made no mention of this (did mention that if I buy add on points, that they would throw in 2018’s on top of it).

@bswan, like everything with Disney, doing some mathematical gymnastics does yield a savings. If, however, the $210 number is happening, the math gets a real murky for CC. However, the one thing that is definite is that you don’t need 100 points to stay a week year after year(at least at this moment). With the bank/borrow system you can squeak out an annual weekly visit without much trouble.

That said, no, it’s not going to beat out a value resort pretty much ever in terms of raw fiscal comparisons. The overarching idea though is if you planned on staying only in deluxe resorts, you’ll see a savings.


#6

Everyone has their own spreadsheets. Rental prices are increasing. It is tough at $210 a point. That is why may people look at resale and prices that start about $100 a point. The recent cash value of my 5 nights at Copper Creek was over $2500. Of course, this is unique because there are no discounts on these rooms these days. The rental price would have been about $1700.

Copper Creek with this increase will now be more than $40 a point from when I bought. I should have bought more…


#7

the only thing that is significantly off is your figure on maintenance

copper creek maintenance fees are 7.33 per point, comes out to about $60/month per 100 points

adjust that in your calculations and you would hit break even a bit sooner.

going forward from there, your annual 100 points is $733 vs 1500 for rental (or more, I think the average is 16+, David’s is currently getting 17)


#8

I have a very small contract- 60 points. It cost me about $10,000 and my dues are under $400. The cash value of this year and next year for my stays are about half that. I see value because I think Disney will continue to raise room rates- again and again.


#9

A thought I have a lot! Although, reading about crowds and possibly paying for FPP makes me feel better, a little.

I agree. DVC rental rates will follow the increase too. I’m sure in the long run we will have saved money that I then find another way to give back to Disney.

I got that email too and was shocked at the price. We bought BLT resale before the restrictions were awful for $95 a point. Every time I remember that and look at prices now, the thoughts of “why didn’t I buy more” creep back in!


#10

I think that’s where the calculations for whether DVC makes financial sense or not become difficult. Early on, DVC purchase was a hedge against inflation. But as DVC price per point has increased dramatically over the years, you have to wonder if that hedge is less of an incentive as it used to be. Regardless, you can’t use today’s resort prices when calculating long-term advantages of DVC.

Having said that, for anyone like myself who doesn’t stay on site, DVC is a financial hole that never makes sense. I can stay an entire week off site for the JUST the cost of maintenance, at a much nicer place. When I did calculations, even trying to plan a trip a year (we usually do a trip every 2-3 years), I couldn’t make DVC break even until about 30-35 years.

Disney will not be able to make money on DVC as they hit critical mass with on-site resorts. So, they have to raise prices on new sales, and they are doing things to make resale less attractive. Over time, I expect them to harm the resale market for their benefit by making first right of refusal happen at a much higher price. At which point the can sell the unit at new DVC prices again.


#11

I asked in the Copper Creek Facebook Group and the answer there was that Disney would exercise ROFR to get add on points.


#12

Sorry, so what’s that mean exactly? I thought that only works for selling it off.

I can’t afford to add on any points at the moment, was hoping to do so in a few years.


#13

If you want to add on points in the future you can buy (a minimum of 50) at the price Disney sets at that time. They will grab a resale contract to find your points and will sell it to you at the same use year.


#14

Oh, ok. That works. Thanks!


#15

There is nothing much at all available 7mos out right now. I think we are seeing SWGE Effect

I’m hoping it will settle down as 7mos was never an issue before. You know I’m a newer owner too but have followed the booking patterns for years and never saw this much of a grinding halt of availability


#16

I told my husband the other night I continue to make Disney mistakes and although I love Coppper Creek and DVC I have bought at the one resort that it is a challenge to book a studio at exactly 11 months even at 8am. I went into work this time for the fastest connection I could find and I won that “press the button at 8am contest” but it is frustrating.


#17

As much as it gives me dry heaves to admit it, I believe Tom Bricker had the best explanation as to why seven months out has gotten difficult: Aulani. People were really keen on the idea of Hawaii, but the mostly-east-coast DVC owners maybe didn’t realize how expensive air travel to Hawaii is, and that it basically adds two travel days to a trip.

So, all those Aulani points (only Saratoga Springs has more) are sloshing around, and Aulani owners are using them at the WDW resorts.


#18

That makes sense and there was a mad rush on the resale market for Aulani points before the rules change.


#19

When I was discussing with my guide my choice between adding on CC vs. AKL, she told me that once CC is sold out it goes to higher per point pricing from DVC direct. That’s the incentive to buy CC now. The price offered to current DVC members includes incentives. I’m looking at 175 points to get the $1700 incentive.
The direct from DVC price for AKL add-on is currently $176. I bought 2 160 point contracts in 2007 at $105 per point I wish I’d bought a third. The current resale AKL price is about $105, but likely DVC exercises its first right to buy a tthat point, so who knows what the real resale price is,
The reason they go to the higher point price ($210 once they are sold out, which looks like they are estimating at June) is to create demand for the points at the newest resort, which is Riviera. I guess that means it will be open for sale around/after June. She didn’t tell me what the price would be, but hinted it would likely be over $200.
@PrincipalTinker I did ask her about the challenge of booking at 11 months. She said that as points are bought, more inventory is released for DVC rooms (vs. regular cash resort rooms) and that once CC is sold out all of the inventory would then be locked in for DVC CC home resort owners at 11 months and should make things work better. She did say that it is likely booking at Christmas will likely remain very tough even at 11 months given the demand.
This is why I am still dithering. I can get my add-on at AKL for about the same price as the CC with member incentive (or go resale but there are reasons I want to stay DVC direct purchase), so how much does the variety matter to me, and a contract at CC that goes through 2068 vs 2057?
Waiting for Riviera is not really an option for me. I don’t like the look of it. Too big and modern. I love AKL, and WL is close.
So still dithering.
But if you want to add-on CC, this is definitely the moment. The incentive is there through April 14, and the resort is now showing 85% sold and it looks like they are expecting it to be sold out in a couple of months.


#20

I have been watching the declarations. This article has the list of what is waiting to be declared as of January:

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/resorts/villas-at-wilderness-lodge/news-75774/4395-copper-creek-almost-fully-declared-for-dvc

Maybe full inventory may help one bedrooms since it is not as difficult to book them as the studios. It may be Galaxy’s Edge combined with a small resort? I booked the same time frame this year (President’s week) as next year and I was just lucky this time. Last year it was no issue at 11 months.