Comment on Disney security


#21

The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was another very tragic example of the massive failure of the “shelter in place” model. I don’t have any formal training in active shooter situations, but I do practice situational awareness with my kids all the time.(We live in grizzly country and have to do this pretty much anytime we go camping or hiking. We take precautions but are not scared). At Disney, we people-watch for fun but also to learn to notice things. We’ve taught them to use their brains and trust their instincts. They are older, though, and very capable young people.

I also pack a tiny but powerful flashlight, and keep it on my nightstand. We go over where the fire exits are in the hotel. I am one of those people who faithfully reads the airplane exit card in the seat pocket. Disturbed people exist, but there are a lot of more mundane risks out there. In this crazy world, you have to do what you can without being afraid to leave the house.


#22

Outside of the school setting, such as at Disney, this is important. Another thing in this training that was kind of eye-opening is how, in a moment of panic, how discombobulated people can become.

They played a video of a somewhat recent airport shooting that had been caught on camera. When the gunman started to shoot, of all the people around, only ONE really acted in a logical way. One lady actually “hid” behind a push cart that was nothing but a metal cage. In other words, it offered virtually no protection whatsoever. The point wasn’t, however, to criticize their actions, but to learn how important it is to practice paying attention. When you enter any situation, make your plan of escape/response. I’ll admit, I’m not sure I’m as good at is as I should be. As part of the security team, we hope to have more regular training to help better prepare us in case something actually happens.


#23

I personally have been in one situation not long ago where I was physically threatened (with the possibility of death, or so I thought), and by myself, and miles from any help including the police. I can attest first hand how panicked and unthinking people can be. It took about 30-sec to a minute for me to think clearly and longer than that to stop shaking so I could protect myself in whatever manner that was available to me at the time.


#24

Sounds terrifying. Reminds me of a situation my family went through on a vacation. I won’t detail it here, but the result was that in the moment when we were feeling threatened, my mind almost went numb about what to do, much as you describe. After we got out of the situation, it took almost ten minutes before my wife or myself could bring ourselves to even talk.

Training that kind of fear out of yourself is…well…difficult to say the least.


#25

All the things I was supposed to do, I had done. It turned out to be very important, not the least to to my peace of mind while waiting for the sheriff. That’s all I can say. Be prepared. Even little things like having the cell phone charged (and being able to get a signal!) can take on tremendous importance.


#26

Oh. Good segue back to Disney. Because now I’m singing “Be Prepared!” in my head.

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#27

Excuse me…What? I seriously doubt that. I have worked closely with several organizations that train in firearms, including the US Army, and never have I heard of anyone stupid enough to shoot at anyone, let alone civilians, in “training.”

Further, you homeschool your kids…

So why are you coming in here like an authority on what schools currently do? Because you talked to a few cops that one time? Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

Just admit that you’ve overstepped your assumptions and be done with it. Why do you keep needing to push that you’re constantly right?


#28

In the active shooter training, they used three items. One was an actual AR15 loaded with blanks and this little block at the end of the barrel for further safety. They fired that one numerous times at a distance during the scenario so that we could hear what actual gunfire sounds like. It surprisingly didn’t sound like I had imagined.

The second two were actually fired at us. One was an airsoft gun, and the other was kind of this super-high powered Nerf-style gun that shot these foam pellets. They pack a wallop and can actually bruise you. These were to experience actually being fired upon directly.

It is scenario training, not suicide training!

Not just cops. Cops who specialize in this training. They do it for a living. Now sure what us choosing to homeschool our kids has anything to do with anything. Regardless, our church is also houses a private school. And while we were being trained for the church security team, the training we were given was the same training they give to schools around the state.

This is the part I don’t understand. What assumptions did I overstep? Nothing I said is wrong. Nothing. BUT, apparently how I said it was, somehow. That’s what I’m trying to understand. You are confusing “trying to understand” with “needing to push that you’re constantly right”. Well, no, I’m not.

I THINK the issue steps from people assuming that “blanket statements” are meant as absolutes. Which isn’t the case. They are generalities, which is exactly how I meant it. The focus of the discussion is meant to be about the need to move away from “shelter in place”. PrincipalThinker’s experience is directly supportive of that!


#29

Pretty inappropriate to gang up on a guy that was just sharing information provided to him by specially trained officers. It was clear to this reader that he was only suggesting that a large number of schools have work to do. That is exactly where progress starts. He did not suggest all are behind. And his data came from experts. (If you choose to believe him as I have zero reason not to).

It’s an emotional topic, but try consider how your emotion impacts your replies and remember we are all imperfect people.


#30

I agree, although it is more than ‘pretty inappropriate’ …I would describe it as obnoxious browbeating. @ryan1 I may not always agree with you 100%, but I value your opinions. You are an interesting person and you always express your thoughts with courtesy and, when appropriate, good humour.


#31

It is very sad.


#32

First, I want to apologize about the pushing thing, looks like you did indeed apologize but I had missed it. Small screen and I guess I scrolled too fast and ended up missing it all together. So I completely apologize on that.

Secondly, while your experience is certainly the safest (and closest) way to experience a firefight, I don’t know if I would really qualify blanks being shot in the air and being zinged by Airsoft BBs and whatever else they used (sounds like simunitions, but only roughly based on what you described) as actually being “shot at.” Both of them are very kindred to Paintball and hardly the same experience when things get real. It’s not semantics, It’s a disservice to those who HAVE been shot at to equate the two.


#33

This is ‘below the belt’. Nothing that has been said could possibility be interpreted as intending to diminish the ‘experiences’ of people who have been shot at with weapons capable of killing or maiming.


#34

If I may return the thread to Walt Disney World — I was alarmed when someone said the Orlando shooter had originally planned an attack at Disney Springs.

What security measures are in place at DS? The security at the four parks seems reasonably good but I’ve never been to DS and am now wondering if I ever will.


#35

Just found this. It’s scary.

https://www.ready.gov/active-shooter


#36

I am sure there are plain clothes security at Disney Springs plus whatever technology they use, but other than that…it really is just an outdoor mall, easily accessible to anyone. There are no metal detectors or bag checks.


#37

I was only answering PrincipalTinker’s query related to training, and as such figured it was obvious I was talking about the type of training experience we had. I wasn’t speaking to anyone else, nor meant to suggest anything otherwise.


#38

I won’t step a toe in too far on this discussion, BUT, I will tell you this…

I’m in California. Last night hit VERY close to home as a friend of mine was supposed to be at that bar last night but stayed home due to not feeling well.

I also pulled my kids out of school a year and a half ago and we do a combination of homeschool/independent study. Many reasons, but this type is situation is a factor.

And my kids’ old school? The “best of the best” in our area? Until just last school year they taught the kids to shelter in place. They have since changed their policy, which I won’t go into detail as I have information a parent shouldn’t have (long story as to why), but I am glad they did. Because we used to participate in the school-wide simulation and it never ended well. (I think I died every time I participated)

I do know Disney has some INSANE security stuff we never see or know about (or most CMs even know about!!), and for that I am grateful. But we went to Disney Springs two weeks ago and my DH commented “this is an easy target”. He’s former military and trained to look for threats (still does in his job today…probably more so actually.) and he was a little uneasy with all the sea of humanity there. (It was chaos on a Saturday night!) I tend to stick to the parks and resorts…although I know anything could happen anywhere.

Anyway. Not going to argue with anyone, just bring up that not all schools have moved on from shelter in place, but they seem to slowly be moving towards the ALICE approach. It’s terrible that we have to even think about these things! My hat is off to anyone who works in a school, it cannot be an easy job. Nor anyone in law enforcement.