It depends on the card. Some examples:
—Capital One Venture rewards card: you get 50,000 points just for signing up, if you spend $3000 in the first 3 months. Also each dollar you spend is worth 2 points. Annual fee is $95, but it is waived the first year. So assuming you put your normal everyday spend on the card, and pay it in full each month, it really is free money. Since the $3000 in spend is worth 6000 points, you’d have 56,000 points after meeting the spend requirement. The easiest redemption is to just get a statement credit for any purchase coded as travel (flights, hotels, Disney package, etc). It’s literally a click of a button. The 56,000 points are with $560. (Another bonus of the Capital One card - if you book hotels through Hotels.com you get 10x points.)
The Barclays Arrival card works the same way (statement credits for travel purchases) And was an even better deal since it’s welcome bonus resulted in 80,000 points worth $800, but I believe that card has been discontinued.
The Chase Sapphire cards are also great, but instead of redeeming through statement credits it is best to redeem by using their travel portal or by transferring to airline partners. I believe for the Sapphire Preferred card you get 60,000 points by signing up and meeting the spend requirement in the first 3 months (I can’t remember if it is $3000 or $5000). When redeemed through the travel portal (very easy for flights and hotels, no blackout dates or anything like that, and price is the same as what you’d pay directly), you deem at 1.25x value, so 60,000 points is worth $750 cash equivalent. Subtract the $95 annual fee from that and you’re still far ahead
—Marriott Bonvoy and similar cards typically value a point value worth a little less (unless you really know how to find the value hotels). So, for example, I believe there is a current deal where you can get 100,000 Bonvoy points for signing up for the credit card and spending $5000 in the first 3 months. I don’t think those 100,000 points are worth $1000 in most cases. As the original posted noted, he got the Swan or dolphin hotel for 50,000 points per night, but the cash price of the hotel is not $500.
I thought I was over 5/24 when I started, and did it all w/o Chase cards. On a whim at the end of it, I applied for and was given an Ink Preferred card as I mentioned. So even w/all of this I got back under 5/24 again throughout the year. I looked at my history on CreditKarma and it shows me 3/24 for the past 2 years but I’d have to think I’m 4/24 or 5/24. Once I’m done w/the Ink Preferred I plan to downgrade my Sapphire Reserve to the Freedom Unlimited, and apply for the Sapphire Preferred when my 48mo. waiting period (Sapphire bonus waiting period) is up in Sept. If I get that or not will tell me with certainty where I stand with 5/24
Good rundown of the top-tier cards. I like Bonvoy points because where I tend to travel I can grab a room for 10-15K pts. At 100K bonus that’s good for up to 10 nights if I get the lowest redemption every time. Even if the Bonvoy card has a $95 fee, that’s $10 per night out of pocket I actually do want to try getting the United Business card before I go for the Sapphire Preferred, since biz cards don’t count against 5/24 (although the approval for them does rely on it).
Delta has a hub where I live, so they most often have the best flight options. And for this trip, at 15K per ticket, that’s tough to beat. JetBlue is another great one for me and we know their point-values, etc. Sometimes I can get a round trip for under 10K (cheap), other times they’re double that. Big difference in, and lesson about, VALUE, for the other person who was asking about what points are worth.
The Southwest Companion biz/personal card double-whammy is another great mention. Since they’re both Chase and I’m all set w/other airlines, I’m leaving that for after I do the Sapphire Preferred and let 5/24 come down again. I think I’ve only flown Southwest once in 15 years, so…
I have been participating in the IN-PARK CHAT area of the mobile app, learning and watching all the in-park tips people have. I didn’t even realize the actual forum was here for a long time. I posted in there to announce my 6-day countdown 'til Disney, mentioned I did it all on points, and asked if anyone wanted to hear about it.
This is it, I’m not trying to be a points blogger.
This is the tough part to answer. I’m not trying to rewrite the internet so I’ll have to let someone else jump in or recommend you check out some of the big travel blogs. Someone asked if I was really “The Points Guy”, who is likely the most popular travel blogger ever. LOL no I am not. But he’s probably a great place to start. There are plenty though, and they all more or less say the same thing as far as basics go. As you learn that, down the rabbit hole you can go and just keep seeing how far you can really push points.
But I’ll give a quick little rundown ONLY regarding sign-up bonuses. Yes you can earn as you spend, but they don’t add up much compared to sign-up bonuses. You get a card, spend X dollars in X time to meet their requirements, they give you points, and if the card has a fee you can cancel it (or better yet, downgrade to a fee-free card to keep your credit limit & history intact), then repeat. Some people structure “manufactured” spending by buying/selling gift cards and stuff to help buffer their points pools for existing cards between sign-up bonuses on new cards but I don’t bother. I’ll make sure to put my monthly expenses on certain cards I want to add to, but it doesn’t add up much for months or more at a time. Certainly not for a vacation, but for instance we have a fee-free card that yields 5x at grocery stores, so at the end of the year that card can pull 2 nights worth at a Hilton.
That brings me to what points are worth. That varies greatly between programs. Hilton and Bonvoy are notorious for being “worthless”, which I don’t think is fair. They are in the sense that 100K points at either doesn’t go as far as 100K points in almost any other program. But…their signup bonuses and earning power on their cards is higher too. At least the signup bonuses are for sure. I think the lowest Hilton bonus I ever got was 75K (highest was 125K, and they even have a 150K but with a fee I will not pay to get the card). I think the spread on my Marriott/Bonvoy cards was between like 70K-100K. But you can expect to spend 15-30K on a standard room in many places. Then there’s Hyatt, which I think gives a 50K as a top bonus, but you can get comparable Hyatt rooms for 4-8K. So while Hilton/Marriott are “worthless”, they also throw them at you to help make up for it. Those 2 are also in many more places than Hyatt too, so that helps.
THEN with programs like Chase UR, Citi ThankYou, Amex Member Rewards, etc. you also get to choose between redeeming through their program portals for X% worth of points (typically points are worth .01 each, so 50K = $500 worth of travel redemption). But with transfer programs, you can get even better. I don’t memorize all this stuff but here is my current example. I’ve got about 500K worth of Chase UR points. That’s good for $5000 worth of travel or a bit more through their portal depending on the deal.
Chase transfers to Hyatt at a rate of 1:1. Remember I said Hilton & Marriott are “worthless”? Well, Chase transfers to those programs I think at 3:1. So moving points to those programs isn’t probably worth it, but if you wanted to you could. You would probably get a better deal redeeming rooms through the Chase travel portal program because being a Chase member offers you a % of savings on points redemptions. Again, that’s too much to get into and try to teach everything, but it’s an idea of how it works.
So anyway, those Chase points of mine. I want to go to Hawaii next Dec/Jan. Looking at a Hyatt hotel out there, I’m seeing a room rate of $600-800 per night. Chase UR redemption is like 50K per night. Not bad for the level of hotel this is, and where it is. But Hyatt has flat redemption rates and I will be transferring enough Chase UR points to the Hyatt program, and will redeem at 25K per night. That’s doubling their worth right there. So cashback redemptions are pretty much always the worst idea. Redeeming through travel programs is usually solid at worst, and transferring to partners (be it hotels or airlines) generally yields the best value upon conversion. Different point programs have different transfer partners, so that’s something you have to read up on too. Chase UR and Amex Member Rewards I believe are regarded as THE BEST programs for flexibility though, so start there. Citi ThankYou seems pretty great too, but I don’t stay on absolute top of things. I just learn as I go by reading whatever the pros say about a specific thing I want to learn about. Usually a new card I see/want, and I see how I can make the best use of it, etc.
The actual “cost of” obtaining points I kinda hit on. It relies on you not spending on unnecessary things to earn the signup bonuses, thus causing inflated spending. Assuming you only spend what you’d have spent otherwise, this will cost you $0 because you would have spent that $$ anyway. The only true cost is a card FEE, for which many cards is waived in the 1st year. Some of the best ones do not waive the fee, but still at $95 per card you would stand to spend that $95 in order to get $400 worth of travel redemption. You’re not spending $20 worth of tokens at Chuck E. Cheese to win a 5-cent eraser. Imagine you spend $20 worth of tokens and redeem for 10 free pizzas. If the pizza is useful to you that’s great. If you hate pizza then who cares. So if you were going to travel and spend money to do so, invest some time and effort (and MAYBE a little money IF you choose cards that have fees) and let it pay for itself.
I understand. I didn’t mean to come in here and be like “Hey look what I did! It’s so easy, you can do it too”. I know many people these days are involved with some light travel hacking, but still lack the know-how on leveraging. I was hoping I’d pique interest of some folks who kinda know, but kinda don’t, and bridge the gap between them being excited for 1 free flight to realizing they can do much more with their efforts.
I’d second that. I don’t subscribe to any sites because they’re always sending out ridiculous stories about redeeming something that never applies to you, places I never want to go, etc. But what I DO use them for is perusing their sites for general guidelines. The basics are the point programs like Chase UR, Amex MR, Citi TY, etc. Those can offer you travel redemptions through their programs or you can transfer those points out to airlines & hotels for better value. If anyone is interested in learning I’d recommend reading up on the ins & outs of such programs to get an idea of it. From there, you can read about how to take advantage of signup bonuses and so forth to rack up points. From there you can read about maximizing redemptions, etc. It’s never-ending, but if you take it one step at a time and read up on your “next steps”, it’ll all come together.
We have had the Chase Sapphire Reserve for a couple of years now and I am eyeing my next card since I’m most likely going to downgrade with the new annual fee. (I’m a suburban mom who has NO need for a Lyft subscription or Doordash.) We are going to Europe next year so I was looking at more of a “travel eraser” type card since I feel very constrained with the UR points. It looked like the Capital One Venture was the top, but I hadn’t even heard of the Barclaycard Arrival. Did you like one better than the other? Barclaycard looks like it has a higher bonus.
I think they come out pretty much the same for travel redemption (not counting partner transfer power, of which I’m not sure what leveraging is available). The 80K Arrival+ points were good for about $800 worth of park tickets plus some left over, and the Venture card 50K points covered $400 worth of tickets plus more left over. I think it’s a draw and the kicker would come from who has the best travel package offers or transfer options if you wish to go that route instead of a generic, simple “travel expenses” redemption off of your statement.
I was denied for the Venture card at one point, despite my credit score being mid-700s. I think it was due to heavy utilization from the other card I just finished and my statement not being paid off for month-end at the time. Or because I had a new card the month prior already. Either way, after that denial I just went for the Citi Premier card and was approved. So maybe Barclays is more stringent on their approvals. Plus, the Arrival+ had a 70K signup bonus vs. the Venture 50K bonus, so why not get those extra 20K points. As well, the comparable Citi Premier was 60K worth of points so that’s also better than 50K. I don’t think you can go wrong with either of the 3.
Remember when you downgrade the CSR you can get the CSP if you don’t already have it/ever had it. Just need to wait 48mo. between Sapphire bonuses.
It really depends on the program and how you use them. The Points Guy does monthly valuations of points/miles for the major programs. Note that this isn’t an actual cash value (except for cash-back cards like Discover), but instead an average value you could expect to redeem them for. As an example, Marriott Bonvoy points are values at 8 cents, but I recently did a points booking for 160,000 points that would have otherwise cost me $3,338, resulting in a value of 2.1 cents.
You really have to figure this out for yourself, based on how you use points/miles. Points Guy does calculations, but those require assumptions based on how you’ll use the points. They explain that, but your situation is not necessarily the same as theirs. From what I can tell the Points Guy site is geared toward very frequent travelers who spend a lot of nights in hotels and fly frequently, so if your travel patterns are less frequent, then your point values may be different than they state. However, it’s a good starting point and reasonable for comparing different credit cards/mileage programs.
Some points are worth different amounts depending on how you spend them, too. For example, I’ve tracked Southwest Airlines point values off and on in recent years and found that depending on what flights I looked at the points can were worth anywhere between $0.0145 and $0.0189. Those numbers may not be exactly the same for someone else, but gives a rough idea of what each Southwest point is worth. Hotels are similar, too, since the same hotel with the same cost in terms of points may have very different prices in real dollars depending on when you choose to use your points to stay there.
Thanks for sharing all of this. It’s always helpful to hear from how folks are getting the most out of their credit card offers!
but, that comes with a free night voucher that can usually be used at a hotel that is charging far more than $95/night. It won’t get anyone a night at the Swan or Dolphin, but could apply to some other Marriott properties near Disney World (though, fewer places if you want to avoid resort and parking fees).
Exactly! That’s why I don’t count any of the fees I’ve had to pay (again, only 2 in this case at most if I recall correctly)…because I still have benefits to redeem for later. I’m just mentioning it before someone unfamiliar with any of this says “ah, but you had to pay $95 for that credit card in the first place” as if the $500 worth of travel benefits it provided wasn’t a fair trade
Thank you! I should have probably done research BEFORE asking the question, but it looks like the Barclaycard doesn’t exist anymore! Bummer.
I haven’t had any new cards in my name in 3 years. My husband got the SW card earlier this year for our companion pass. So I should hopefully be good to go with any of these. Still trying to decide if I want to do the CSP. I might just spend all of our miles before I cancel in May!
News to me too! Looks like I got it a couple months before they killed it off. New cards are always coming out at least You should be good to begin the Chase Gauntlet yourself too, not having any new cards issued in over 2 years. Good luck!
Welcome to the forum! I’ve always been intimidated by the system of points and miles, and it never seemed worth it based on purchases. It seems to really be about the bonuses if I’m understanding it correctly. It makes me more comfortable knowing that you didn’t change any of your normal spending to accomplish this! Thanks for sharing.
Welcome aboard - it’s always good to have new members
I’m glad your system works for you; that kind of maneuvering and accounting would drive me insane. Also, we only have one credit card with an intentionally low limit, and no collected “points/miles”.
Yes. Many folks make sport out of what they call manufactured spending, and run up points that way, but again to me that is not fun. This makes it easy. But you’re limited to new cards you can open whereas those folks keep some and keep playing with them. They also tend to travel or redeem for much higher valued travel than I’m interested in.
I was always that way too. No debt, be frugal, save a lot of my money, etc. Then I got a couple hundred dollars worth of a bonus years ago, thought it was cool, looked into other cards I could do that with, and found there’s a whole world out there that blew my ideas away. The accounting part of this is pretty easy when you just stick to signup bonuses. Open a card, keep a spreadsheet or calendar reminder for when it’s time to renew/downgrade/avoid fee, or just keep it open otherwise if there is no fee. Set up auto-pay in full for monthly statements and it literally needs nothing else until you redeem. Even then I’ve kept it pretty simple for my Disney trip. My other plans for later involve a bit more travel hack tricks, but that’s another story.
I love the points and miles hobby. Mostly, I use my established cards to earn points through my normal spending habits, without churning through bonuses. I would only share this word of caution: Chase has been shutting down accounts with ‘suspicious activity’, like opening a bunch of cards at once or manufactured spending. I fished through and found TPG’s word of caution.
I stay away from all of that. The only concern could be the # of Chase cards I have, some of which are 10 years old. Other than that, I don’t do any of the stuff they mention here. I pay full-time daycare so $3000 in 3 months is a snap. I’m not running up questionable charges.
I’ve been doing this for a while and have gone on some great trips, though nothing crazy… hubs and I both have sapphire reserves but with the fee increase we will prob cancel his end of year. For this trip, we used points to pay for a couple of the flights, rental car, universal fix. We will also use the lyft benefits quite a bit and probably doordash as well while we are there. Plus the $300 credit. We easily get our value out of it annually and dont travel that often because we have a young toddler.
I have done the most basic of basic collecting of points and have been pleased with the results. The one credit card we use for almost everything has, over 10+ years (I just don’t remember how old it is) = 12 free domestic plane tickets and one free hotel stay of 2 nights in a decent hotel. We also collect Marriott points and have maybe had about 5 free nights, scattered throughout the past 8 yrs, one night here and one there. If you let them build up you can get more free nights but we don’t travel enough to make that happen. Overall I’ve been very happy especially with the plane tickets, although we’ve watched the deal with that CC get worse and worse through the years. Still better than paying full prices for our family of 5 every time we want to fly.
I actually do want to try getting the United Business card before I go for the Sapphire Preferred, since biz cards don’t count against 5/24 (although the approval for them does rely on it).